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Message: <blockquote data-quote="DMScott" data-source="post: 1919674" data-attributes="member: 11734">And I am simply pointing out that by the exact same rules as written, Charm Person is Evil in D&D. Yet Charm Person is not treated as inherently evil in any of the source material that I'm aware of; quite the opposite, the spell is often found in the arsenal of good creatures. I don't know a single DM who claims that Charm Person is absolutely, objectively evil unless house-ruled otherwise; not even you will take that position, instead claiming that whether this completely oppressive spell is evil depends on the circumstances of its use. This shows us that the line you're so fond of quoting offers absolutely no justification for painting anything as evil. It's simply a guideline for a DM to follow when setting up their own absolute alignment system, and different DMs will put different actions on either side of the Evil line.So I misunderstood when you agreed that Charm Person was not inherently evil, or when you put forward manacles as an example of how silly the "oppression = evil" argument is? I think perhaps any misunderstanding is more likely to be due to your confusion as to what you're arguing.And I am pointing out that since you do not follow your own quoted rules, you have not made any such case. I think perhaps you should sit down and figure out what exactly is and is not evil under the system you propose, I think that will help you come up with a somewhat coherent argument as to what is and is not evil. I think you'll find that some things that involve "hurting, oppressing, and killing others" are indeed evil, and some you'll believe do not.Of course, at that point you'll have arrived at exactly the statement you objected to: that a DM has to define both an absolute alignment system and the form(s) of slavery in their campaign before they can make the call as to whether it's Evil or not.Since you have done nothing but prove my point in any of your replies, we are simply spinning our wheels here, so this is my last response in this thread. Good luck, and have a good day.</blockquote>

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