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Message: <blockquote data-quote="Stalker0" data-source="post: 8416868" data-attributes="member: 5889">To the first one, exactly.To the second....eh not quite. So a THF at that level is doing 2d6 + 11 (5 str + 6 from vital strike) + 2 (lets say a +2 weapon).So 2d6 + 13, or 4d6 + 13 on a crit, for about 29 average damage (if we factor in the THF combat style). So a standard crit is nearly doubled in strength....pretty solid....and that is for THF. If I'm the more standard sword board: 1d8 + 15 (dueling style) = 2d8 +15 on crit = 24 average damage, so just a little over double damage.Yes it does mean the double damage on brutal surge is wasted, but as a base ability is not bad. However, I do think the ability needs a slight clarity. Is it 50 hp before the crit damage is applied, or after? I am assuming its the former, as the later would be kind of crazy, but I could see people reading it as the latter.Let me offer a different idea for brutal surge:Brutal Surge: When using action surge, you may maximize the weapon damage of 1 attack.This gives you consistent power without breaking BA, allows you to gain a benefit without trading, and works more seemlessly with the deadly crit ability (even at max 4d6 +13 = 37, so the deadly crit still gives you benefit even on the brutal surge).Only possible issue here is a multiclass with rogue/paladin, where a brutal surge + crit + SA/Smite could equal to incredible damage. Then again action surge already combos really well with lots of classes anyway.</blockquote>

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