Slaying Action & Sneak of Shadows

[Kzach]

Would taking the Slaying Action feat give you an extra use of Sneak Attack (as long as you spent an action point) if you had the Sneak of Shadows feat?

 

[Mouseferatu]

No. Sneak of Shadows only gives you one sneak attack per encounter, period.

The Slaying Action feat gives you access to sneak attack a second time in a round--which you normally don't have--but it does not remove the limitations on Sneak of Shadows.

 

[Jack99]

Sneak of Shadows [Multiclass Rogue]

Prerequisite: Dex 13
Benefit: You gain training in the Thievery skill.
Once per encounter, you can use the rogue’s Sneak Attack class feature.

Slaying Action

Heroic Tier
Prerequisite: Rogue, Sneak Attack class feature
Benefit: If you spend an action point to take an extra action and have already dealt Sneak Attack damage during this round, you can deal the extra damage a second time during this turn.

I respectfully disagree.

If you have the sneak of shadow feat and you AP the same round as you have used your 1/encounter sneak attack, I see no reason why Slaying Action should not grant you the extra sneak attack damage on the AP attack, of course assuming all the other conditions to apply Sneak Attack are met.

 

[OnlineDM]

I respectfully disagree.

If you have the sneak of shadow feat and you AP the same round as you have used your 1/encounter sneak attack, I see no reason why Slaying Action should not grant you the extra sneak attack damage on the AP attack, of course assuming all the other conditions to apply Sneak Attack are met.

I'm with Mouseferatu. As a multiclassed Rogue, you only get Sneak Attack once per encounter. As a regular rogue, you only get Sneak Attack once per round. Slaying action lets a regular rogue break the "once per round" rule, but my interpretation of it is that it does NOT let a multiclassed rogue break the "once per encounter" rule.

 

[Jack99]

I'm with Mouseferatu. As a multiclassed Rogue, you only get Sneak Attack once per encounter. As a regular rogue, you only get Sneak Attack once per round. Slaying action lets a regular rogue break the "once per round" rule, but my interpretation of it is that it does NOT let a multiclassed rogue break the "once per encounter" rule.

You did notice the c/p from the Compendium? Slaying Action clearly does not speak of "once per round", but instead of "having dealt sneak attack damage during this round".

So...

Slaying Action

Heroic Tier
Prerequisite: Rogue, Sneak Attack class feature

If I am multiclass rogue with Sneak of Shadows, I meet all prerequisites.

Benefit: If you spend an action point to take an extra action and have already dealt Sneak Attack damage during this round, you can deal the extra damage a second time during this turn.

If I with my 1/encounter sneak attack deal sneak attack damage during a round, I meet this part.

Nowhere does it say that I have to be able to do it every round. Just that I can only gain the extra sneak attack (with AP) when I have already sneak attacked (and hit).

Look, I am sure this was probably not what the intent (RAI), but it is RAW. However, do bear in mind that the second SA is gained and can only be used in conjunction with an AP after having hit and dealt SA damage in the same round. Thats a lot of limits, considering it costs another feat and the relatively few possible damage points it is possible to gain from this.

It's hardly breaking anything, that's for sure.

 

[Stalker0]

Jack when I first read this I was going to go with your argument, however, as I was writing my reply I realized something that changed my mind.

Benefit: If you spend an action point to take an extra action and have already dealt Sneak Attack damage during this round, you can deal the extra damage a second time during this turn.

At first I was going to say that specific trumps general, and that this feat would overwrite the normal sneak attack rules that the multiclass rogue follows.

However, the feat does not specifically mention that the second extra damage has to meet the prereqs for sneak attack (such as combat advantage). So it could be interpreted that I can automatically get sneak attack damage on my next hit that round, regardless of whether I have CA or not.

But since I don't believe that is the intent of the feat, I would then argue that the rogue must still meet all of the requirements to perform a sneak attack to obtain that second damage. One of those is the ability to sneak attack. Since the multiclass rogue now longer has the ability to sneak attack (since he's 1/encounter SA is exhausted), I would say he doesn't get the extra damage.

 

[the Jester]

I'm with Jack on this one. Specific trumps general, and if a character wanted to invest two feats to pull this off WITH AN ACTION POINT?? Sure.

 

[Jack99]

However, the feat does not specifically mention that the second extra damage has to meet the prereqs for sneak attack (such as combat advantage). So it could be interpreted that I can automatically get sneak attack damage on my next hit that round, regardless of whether I have CA or not.

But since I don't believe that is the intent of the feat, I would then argue that the rogue must still meet all of the requirements to perform a sneak attack to obtain that second damage. One of those is the ability to sneak attack. Since the multiclass rogue now longer has the ability to sneak attack (since he's 1/encounter SA is exhausted), I would say he doesn't get the extra damage.

I see your point, but I still disagree. You see, while you are right that it is safe to assume that normal conditions regarding SA (fx CA) must be met, the feat explicitly states that you get the ability to deal extra SA on a hit (if you have hit and dealt SA damage previously in the round and used an AP) - that part of the sentence is specific, which overrides the general rule, that you can deal SA damage 1/r (or as in this case, 1/enc).

Cheers

 

[MrMyth]

It's a tricky question. Comparing with the same situation for the Ranger or Warlock doesn't help - this combo absolutely works for the ranger multiclass feat, and absolutely doesn't for the warlock multiclass feat.

I'm inclined to say it works. It doesn't feel too powerful to do so, and the wording can be read to imply it. But I think it is vague enough overall that I certainly wouldn't argue with a DM who ruled it either way - nor, do I suspect, will we find one common interpretation that everyone can agree on.

 

[Festivus]

I tend to agree with Jack99 here. It is blowing a feat to get an extra 2d6 (or 2d8 damage) once per encounter (if they even hit) and with the expenditure of an action point. That's a hefty price to pay for a shot at extra damage.

Compared to a rogue, who does sneak attack damage most rounds, and usually can hit with slaying action (at least my rogue can, level 10 and +19 to attack rolls)