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Message: <blockquote data-quote="Siuis" data-source="post: 5211207" data-attributes="member: 51622">Actually, if dragons resisted all attempts to render them non-conscious, why don't they benefit from the Diehard feat at all times and have a sidebar saying that nonlethal damage and suffocation cannot render them unconscious? Because they would have to have full-spectrum protection for your claim to have merit.Yes, it didn't specify magical sleep, but as any drunk can tell you, sleep and being poisoned past consciousness are different. It's sort of a jerk-move, but unconsciousness poison does affect the shaman. He'll, it may have been designed by the DM to specifically affect said shaman, since the player was in a position where he expected his protection to kick in (saying "I'm immune" when the DM only asked for a fort save means he knew what the affect should be).So you are willing to have a poison that arbitrarily deals, we'll say 100 damage to a mental ability score, can render you unconscious because the rules say so (no further explanation needed) but a poison thatrenders you unconscious can't do so because there is no definition in-game specifically separating sleep and unconsciousness, despite multiple cited in-game examples (which, to use your own argument, should be obvious enough they don't need further explanation)?It seems like the answer, while painful, is right there. What is the difference between asphyxiation via blocked airway, and asphyxiation via a toxin which renders your blood less able to process oxygen? Unconscious is just that. Sleep is definitely something different, and saying "you can't cite the most obvious evidence as proof" in the case of nonlethal damage is just... Well, trying to bully your way into finding support. No rule to my memory says you should stay conscious, but several I can recall (but not cite, I'm afraid) specify that poison can bypass the usual sleep immunity (as with elves).</blockquote>

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