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Sleep Poison not a Sleep Effect?!?!?!?!?!
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<blockquote data-quote="Final_boss325" data-source="post: 5211239" data-attributes="member: 91315"><p>Wow...jeez. Where to start with that one?</p><p></p><p>1. About two posts ago I even said that physical things that cause unconsciousness would be exceptions, such as non-lethal damage, being in negative hit points, and having a zero strength score. The ability says sleep effects, not unconscious situations.</p><p></p><p>2. The fact that sleep isn't in the list of status effects in the DMG leads me to believe that there is no concrete definition of a sleep effect. Reading the description of the sleep spells, i believe they were implying unconscious.</p><p></p><p>3. I can't buy the whole "It says unconsciousness as the effect so obviously it doesn't cause sleep" thing. This is just arguing semantics.</p><p></p><p>4. I never said I should be immune to all the effects of said poison, just the sleep effect. If it had a 1d4 dex and unconsciousness effect, I believe I would take the dex damage, but not the other effect.</p><p></p><p>5. I stated the literal definition of sleep earlier. Even with rudimentary logic, one can figure out that sleep poison=tranquilizer. People snore, dream and wake refreshed from tranquilizers (As long as they don't abuse them.) UNCONSCIOUSNESS=SLEEP.</p><p></p><p>6. As for being poisoned past consciousness? The dragon shaman has dedicated his life to emulating dragons. Including learning how to shake off things that would UNNATURALLY cause him to suddenly lose consciousness, magical or otherwise. He wouldn't spend time worrying about unconscious vs. sleep. </p><p></p><p>7. If the poison was designed to work on me, there was no mention of this. I'll clarify the situation a little more in a sec.</p><p></p><p>8. THE WHOLE ARGUMENT OF THIS POST FROM THE BEGINNING WAS THE DM SAYING MY ABILITY ONLY WORKS ON SPELL OR SLAs THAT CAUSE SLEEP, WHEN OBVIOUSLY IT WORKS ON ALL SLEEP EFFECTS.</p><p></p><p>9. And finally, I stand by old argument of "If it's called a sleep poison, (as it was to me) it's a sleep effect.</p><p></p><p>Apparently, as I've discovered, the encounter was one of those "supposed to lose fights". I despise these things but that's beyond the point. We were under attack by bounty hunters that were trying to capture us alive. If we're going to go through one of these stupid things, I would think that the DM would be a little more creative with things rather than saying "Uh...this sleep effect does work on you". There were a lot of ways he could have handled it, and he took the "DM magic" route. I'm sorry but if my immune-to-sleep-effects character is going to be put to sleep by your poison, you better be able to tell me how/where/when/and from who this poison came from (keeping player knowledge and character knowledge separate), and it better be good. "DM magic" doesn't fly with me...and I guess that's why I'm so frustrated.</p><p></p><p>Logic is the name of the game here. Not rules nazi-ing. When the end result is the same I believe the effect is the same. Allow me to show an example:</p><p></p><p>1+1+1+1+1 = 5</p><p></p><p>Both sides of the equation say the same thing...just in different ways. One may look longer and more complicated but they equal out to the same thing.</p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="Final_boss325, post: 5211239, member: 91315"] Wow...jeez. Where to start with that one? 1. About two posts ago I even said that physical things that cause unconsciousness would be exceptions, such as non-lethal damage, being in negative hit points, and having a zero strength score. The ability says sleep effects, not unconscious situations. 2. The fact that sleep isn't in the list of status effects in the DMG leads me to believe that there is no concrete definition of a sleep effect. Reading the description of the sleep spells, i believe they were implying unconscious. 3. I can't buy the whole "It says unconsciousness as the effect so obviously it doesn't cause sleep" thing. This is just arguing semantics. 4. I never said I should be immune to all the effects of said poison, just the sleep effect. If it had a 1d4 dex and unconsciousness effect, I believe I would take the dex damage, but not the other effect. 5. I stated the literal definition of sleep earlier. Even with rudimentary logic, one can figure out that sleep poison=tranquilizer. People snore, dream and wake refreshed from tranquilizers (As long as they don't abuse them.) UNCONSCIOUSNESS=SLEEP. 6. As for being poisoned past consciousness? The dragon shaman has dedicated his life to emulating dragons. Including learning how to shake off things that would UNNATURALLY cause him to suddenly lose consciousness, magical or otherwise. He wouldn't spend time worrying about unconscious vs. sleep. 7. If the poison was designed to work on me, there was no mention of this. I'll clarify the situation a little more in a sec. 8. THE WHOLE ARGUMENT OF THIS POST FROM THE BEGINNING WAS THE DM SAYING MY ABILITY ONLY WORKS ON SPELL OR SLAs THAT CAUSE SLEEP, WHEN OBVIOUSLY IT WORKS ON ALL SLEEP EFFECTS. 9. And finally, I stand by old argument of "If it's called a sleep poison, (as it was to me) it's a sleep effect. Apparently, as I've discovered, the encounter was one of those "supposed to lose fights". I despise these things but that's beyond the point. We were under attack by bounty hunters that were trying to capture us alive. If we're going to go through one of these stupid things, I would think that the DM would be a little more creative with things rather than saying "Uh...this sleep effect does work on you". There were a lot of ways he could have handled it, and he took the "DM magic" route. I'm sorry but if my immune-to-sleep-effects character is going to be put to sleep by your poison, you better be able to tell me how/where/when/and from who this poison came from (keeping player knowledge and character knowledge separate), and it better be good. "DM magic" doesn't fly with me...and I guess that's why I'm so frustrated. Logic is the name of the game here. Not rules nazi-ing. When the end result is the same I believe the effect is the same. Allow me to show an example: 1+1+1+1+1 = 5 Both sides of the equation say the same thing...just in different ways. One may look longer and more complicated but they equal out to the same thing. [/QUOTE]
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Sleep Poison not a Sleep Effect?!?!?!?!?!
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