Sleeping Spellcasters & PHBII Teams

[Prophet2b]

Okay, I just got the PHBII and was reading through the teamwork section toward the back and found all of the awesome teamwork benefits. Great idea - I love it. But here's my question...

In my campaign, we've got an Elven Bard, a Ranger, Fighter, Mercenary (custom class), Wizard, and Evangelist (Dragon Magazine version, not crappy DMG version).

One of the teamwork benefits they've introduced is that the elf can now teach the rest of the party how to enter a meditative state, thus allowing for 4 hours of meditation each day (albeit only with his help) as opposed to the usually required 8 hours of rest.

However... a friend was telling me that according to PHB rules, spellcasters are still required to get 8 hours of rest, regardless of whether they've meditated for 4 hours or not. So an elven wizard (an elf who's in his favored class) receives (practically speaking) no benefit from his 4 hour meditation.

Is that true? Is so, why? And would it be overbalancing to say, "Screw it, 4 hours of meditation equals 8 hours of rest, even for spellcasters"?

I couldn't find it in the PHB. It just seems dumb that 8 hours of rest are required if 4 hours of meditation by an elf for every other non-spellcasting class equals the equivalent 8 hours of rest.

That would make that Teamwork benefit a lot less useful, too. Still useful... but much less than I originally thought it'd be.

 

[lukelightning]

It's in the magic chapter, about preparing spells; From the SRD:

"To prepare her daily spells, a wizard must first sleep for 8 hours. The wizard does not have to slumber for every minute of the time, but she must refrain from movement, combat, spellcasting, skill use, conversation, or any other fairly demanding physical or mental task during the rest period. If her rest is interrupted, each interruption adds 1 hour to the total amount of time she has to rest in order to clear her mind, and she must have at least 1 hour of uninterrupted rest immediately prior to preparing her spells. If the character does not need to sleep for some reason, she still must have 8 hours of restful calm before preparing any spells."

There is similar wording for other casters as well.

 

[Prophet2b]

But... why?...

 

[Vorput]

A lot of it is a balance issue... and just general common sense.

Common Sense- I don't think the original designers EVER planned for humans, gnomes, dwarves, etc. somehow taking elfish abilities... It's just too far out there. Moroever, even elven wizards currently need 8 hours of 'rest' and Wizard is the elven favored class.

Balance- Spellcaster already become extraordinarily powerful at higher levels, the 8 hours a day they NEED to take to rest and prepare spells is one of the things that prevents them from being more powerful than they already are.

Moreover, I recognize this is a fantasy game- but there are no humans alive today who need to 'meditate' and not sleep. If someone tries to slip into a trance for 4 out of every 24 hours, eventually they'll either fall asleep- or die. Their body can't support it. Elves are immune to sleep spells, and biologically don't 'sleep- the other races aren't. I haven't read this section yet, but it seems too weird... does this mean the elf can also train us how to detect secret doors if we're all walking within 5 feet of them? How about the elf can teach us how to avoid sleep spells as long as we're next to the elf when we're hit.

Teamwork is having the elf meditate and then keeping watch while the rest of the part gets some shut-eye... everyone suddenly needing 4 hours of 'trance' A) shortchanges the entire elven race and B) isn't so much teamwork anymore as some sort of weird... synergistic race splicing.

Just MHO.

Vorp

 

[lukelightning]

My first thought was "No way I'm going to sit in a circle with that hippie elf and do that girly foo-foo thing; that's so fruity. You just know he'll want to hold hands and the next thing you know we'll all have to sing Kumbaya and have a group hug."

Guess which race my character is.

 

[JoeBlank]

Teamwork is having the elf meditate and then keeping watch while the rest of the part gets some shut-eye... everyone suddenly needing 4 hours of 'trance' A) shortchanges the entire elven race and B) isn't so much teamwork anymore as some sort of weird... synergistic race splicing.

I've always understood the phrase "or any other fairly demanding physical or mental task" to forbid being on watch, as this would be mentally demanding.

Do others allow elf wizards to meditate for 4 hours and then take a 4 hour watch and consider this 8 hours of rest?

 

[Vorput]

My first thought was "No way I'm going to sit in a circle with that hippie elf and do that girly foo-foo thing; that's so fruity. You just know he'll want to hold hands and the next thing you know we'll all have to sing Kumbaya and have a group hug."

Guess which race my character is.

LMAO!!!

 

[KarinsDad]

everyone suddenly needing 4 hours of 'trance' A) shortchanges the entire elven race and B) isn't so much teamwork anymore as some sort of weird... synergistic race splicing.

I think there is quite a bit in PHB II about giving special / supernatural racial or class abilities to other characters via feats or other methods.

It appears that WotC wants to allow every character to branch out into other areas, regardless of whether those areas were previously restricted by race or class. It really waters down many unique abilities if others "outside the group" can now get them. IMO.


As for resting 8 hours, balance is the main reason. Spell casters are already more powerful than combatant types once you get beyond low levels. Replenishing spells faster shifts the power even more in favor of spell casters.

 

[Hypersmurf]

There is similar wording for other casters as well.

Debate raged for a long time about the Ring of Sustenance Some people claimed "all the benefits" of eight hours' sleep included the ability to prepare spells, while others pointed out that elves gain all the benefits of eight hours' sleep, which explicitly excludes the ability to prepare spells.

From memory, the FAQ sided with the "Still need to rest for 6 hours after sleeping for 2" with the Ring.

-Hyp.

 

[dagger]

I've always understood the phrase "or any other fairly demanding physical or mental task" to forbid being on watch, as this would be mentally demanding.

Do others allow elf wizards to meditate for 4 hours and then take a 4 hour watch and consider this 8 hours of rest?

We do, but still only allow casters to reset there spells once every 24 hours.