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<blockquote data-quote="Celebrim" data-source="post: 700011" data-attributes="member: 4937">Well, if we just assume that 'Spider Climb' gives you a climb speed, my problems with the power of the spell go out the window, but on the other hand so does the descriptive explanation of the spell.&nbsp; The spell specifically says that the spell lets you&nbsp; 'climb and travel on vertical surfaces or even traverse ceilings as well as a spider does'.&nbsp; Tradiationally, the implicit assumption is that you can climb along a ceiling, spider man like, without the need for a skill check.But an analytical analysis of the spell doesn't reveal that.&nbsp;&nbsp; First, let's note that spiders _do not_ have racial bonuses to climb checks (a big oversight on the part of the designers if you ask me), although they do seem to have 4 or so innate skill points 'invested' in climb.&nbsp;&nbsp; Even so, a medium sized average strength spider 'only' has a +12 climb bonus.&nbsp;&nbsp; Combined with its ability via climb speed to always take 10 on a climb check, this means it can 'easily' traverse obstacles of up to DC 22.&nbsp; Problem is, a worked stone or brick wall is DC 25, and the difficulty for a smooth ceiling is up in the Epic range.So as well as a spider in a literal sense doesn't appear to be all that good.</blockquote>

[QUOTE="Celebrim, post: 700011, member: 4937"] Well, if we just assume that 'Spider Climb' gives you a climb speed, my problems with the power of the spell go out the window, but on the other hand so does the descriptive explanation of the spell. The spell specifically says that the spell lets you 'climb and travel on vertical surfaces or even traverse ceilings as well as a spider does'. Tradiationally, the implicit assumption is that you can climb along a ceiling, spider man like, without the need for a skill check. But an analytical analysis of the spell doesn't reveal that. First, let's note that spiders _do not_ have racial bonuses to climb checks (a big oversight on the part of the designers if you ask me), although they do seem to have 4 or so innate skill points 'invested' in climb. Even so, a medium sized average strength spider 'only' has a +12 climb bonus. Combined with its ability via climb speed to always take 10 on a climb check, this means it can 'easily' traverse obstacles of up to DC 22. Problem is, a worked stone or brick wall is DC 25, and the difficulty for a smooth ceiling is up in the Epic range. So as well as a spider in a literal sense doesn't appear to be all that good. [/QUOTE]

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