Slow (Arcane) Hand: Increasing Casting Times

[Dannyalcatraz]

A thought occurred to me: What would happen to 3.X if the casting times on all spells were increased to 1 or more rounds?

In such a system, Quicken Spell would just allow spells to be cast at their published speed.

I think 2 beneficial things would occur:

1) Parties couldn't depend on casters to solve every problem, since magic takes too much time. This would protect the non-caster classes niches. Even at high levels, there simply isn't time enough for casters to overshadow everyone all the time.

2) The end of the 15 Minute Work-Day. Your caster probably can't "go nova" in 3 combats because he doesn't have enough time to do so, which means he has more left over for other situations.

(Neither is an issue for the group I'm in at this moment, but in my years on this board, I've seen both raised numerous times.)

The one downside that immediately springs to mind:

1) Increased probability of TPKs. Slow Magic means that when the party needs the mage to "go nova," he can't.

Thoughts? Additional positives and negatives?

 

[El Mahdi]

At first I thought this was a thread about a Wizard named Clapton. (You know, "Slow Hand".)

Personally I think it would seriously handicap arcane casters (I'm not sure if you intended this for Divine magic also?). Warriors would definitely rule the field again, but I'm not sure if this would be very fun for players of arcane casters. I can't speak for anyone else, but I know I wouldn't want to play a caster under these restrictions.

 

[milo]

The biggest problem to me would be the spell interruption. You have at least a full round to interrupt spells and sometimes more. If you have an archer in your party there should almost never be a spell cast against you successfully. Especially if you throw a magebane bow in his hands. A fighter at 6th level could be doing D10+7+2D6 against wizards with a Mty(+2) Magebane Greatbow +1. Easily hit twice forcing 2 concentration checks at a DC of 20 to 39 depending on the damage roll. As he levels that DC is just going to get higher. With max ranks in concentration and a CON of 14 you would have a +11 so the roll will be a minimum of 9. I figure by the law of averages there should almost never be a spell completed.

 

[Loonook]

Elements of Magic: Mythic Earth (and possibly the Revised edition for 3.x) has a 2 round casting time for spells which are created on the fly. You have 'signature spells' which take a standard action... however, all other spells take 2 rounds.

Combat casting is more dangerous unless you have your signature spells ready... however, the flexibility of the system allows for a lot more interesting spells to be created and used (if you have 2 rounds to spend).

Slainte,

-Loonook.

 

[Jlord]

one down side of this would be that the spell caster players would get bored. sometimes it can take a while for a round to complete itself, so if a caster has to spend more than one turn that is going to bore the player to death. thats my opinion at least.

 

[Dannyalcatraz]

At first I thought this was a thread about a Wizard named Clapton. (You know, "Slow Hand".)

That was whom I was "invoking."

Personally I think it would seriously handicap arcane casters (I'm not sure if you intended this for Divine magic also?).

Actually, yes- sorry I wasn't clear.

The handicap would be most pronounced at lower levels, obviously. A high level caster would still be able to deal out tremendous damage to a wide variety of opponents even if he could only cast a spell every other round.

Warriors would definitely rule the field again,

Part of the suggestion was to extend the "sweet spot" for playing non-casters into higher levels, as well as getting away from the "I magic that" problem that some high-level campaigns seem to suffer from.

but I'm not sure if this would be very fun for players of arcane casters.

I think that it would depend- on a certain level, I don't see this as appreciably different from "Low Magic" campaigns. Instead of reducing the levels available, "Slow Magic" limits how much magic can be launched in a given time frame. In a "Low Magic" campaign, "Wish" is probably not allowed. In a "Slow Magic" campaign, its available, but it may take a while to be fulfilled...

It occurs to me that this would also make classic "caster toys" like rings, wands, staves and wands more important. MUCH more.

The biggest problem to me would be the spell interruption.

I agree that this is a serious concern. However, I'm not sure how serious. I know its just a statistical aberration, but I haven't seen a but a handful of spells successfully interrupted in all the years 3Ed/3.XEd have been around.

Unfortunately, I don't have the statistical chops to do a meaningful analysis of the problem.

one down side of this would be that the spell caster players would get bored.

I admit this could also be a serious problem, but again, one that depends upon the players themselves. Someone who is a fan of "Low Magic" type campaigns might find this interesting.

Elements of Magic: Mythic Earth (and possibly the Revised edition for 3.x) has a 2 round casting time for spells which are created on the fly. You have 'signature spells' which take a standard action... however, all other spells take 2 rounds.

Interesting!

When using that, did you note any of the problems the others have pointed out?

 

[Loonook]

Interesting!

When using that, did you note any of the problems the others have pointed out?

Honestly never had an issue... but my thought process may be odd to people.

You see... I like the ridiculous flexibility inherent in it. I could make an effect to create a spiritual weapon, throw a fireball, blast with a nice handy lightning bolt... all through use of Attack. Or buff armor class, make some resistance, or raise a spell-protection via Defend. The fact that you do have signature spells is great... and there are some times when that go-to spell slot keeps you up... but the feel behind casting is more tense, more in-your-face. When you're having to run through your mind setting variables and checking your process to change that fireball into a thin ray of ice to hit the evil demon instead of the mayor's comely daughter... while you're surrounded by cultists... and your warrior is barely holding the line between live you and you chopped to bits...

Nah, it just didn't do anything for me . Also, I found it a lot easier to do interesting things with a less defined system. When we used it in a modern game I divined using a wine glass, cast up a defense by writing in marker on a windshield and raising my will, and trapped a demon in a circle made of gumption and carefully balanced pebbles... all sorts of fun and interesting ways to create an effect, change the effect, etc. ... but you pay for that flexibility with extended cast times.

Slainte,

-Loonook.

 

[starwed]

This would probably frustrate casters too much.

One compromise would be to have it only apply to caster's highest level of spells.

 

[Theo R Cwithin]

I tinkered with this a little a while back. Aside from the risk of interrupts, the big problems I couldn't resolve dealt with targetting in combat.

For example, a ray spell requires a ranged touch. So if the spell takes more than a standard action to cast, when is the to-hit roll made: before or after the casting? What if the target moves out of range or takes cover during the casting time? The caster may have just wasted a spell.... Whether that's ok or not is a matter of taste, but either way it certainly changes how spells are used.

There are many such questions that need to be answered before certain spells (with targets, areas of effect, or hit-rolls) are slowed down, because they heavily impact the tactics of spell use. Unfortunately, I'm not much of a game designer, so I've never managed to 'fix' these problems in any logically consistent way.

 

[Dannyalcatraz]

Good point!

I think that with Slow Magic, the only way to be fair about targeted spells is to make the caster determine his target only AFTER the casting has been completed coupled with letting casters hold the charge, just like with normal touch spells.