Slowpoke wagons and ships?

[Solmyr]

I have a question that has nagged me for some time now. According to the rules in the PHB, a cart or wagon moves 16 miles per day; a rowboat 15 miles per day; and a sailing ship 48 miles per day. Now, a 30 ft speed character on foot walks 24 miles per day, which makes him faster than wagons and rowboats. A mounted character can cover 28-48 miles per day, which at higher ranges is about as good as a ship (if we look at movement per hour, a ship cover 2 miles on average while a mounted character covers 4-5, putting him ahead).

I am no naval expert but are ships really that slow? And on land, what is the point of taking a wagon or a rowboat (on rivers) if you can go faster by just walking?

 

[awayfarer]

For ships, I imagine a lot of that depends on currents and on wind speed. I remember hearing that when ships began leaving Europe for the New World, they were making the return trip much faster due to pull of the gulf stream for instance. If you're lacking one or the other you might not be moving particularly fast.

Clipper ships
Take the clipper ship for instance. These were among the fastest in their day but they were only going about 10 mph on average and 20 mph tops.

I would say the benefit of a cart would be if you're hauling large amounts of stuff. I used to work in shipping and distribution and sometimes you need to slow down the big machines, forklifts, power jacks and such to less then a walking speed if you wanted to get where you were going without spilling things everywhere. It's slower yes but you're moving much, much more material than a few folks could by hand. In other words, the carts aren't built for speed, they're built to haul things around. Theres also the added benefit of not arriving at your destination with sore feet.

 

[kigmatzomat]

You ride a wagon because a) it means you aren't walking and b) stuff that is in a wagon is stuff you aren't carrying.

Here are some sailing speed records and you can see that they vary based on the route (water currents are important) and direction (prevailing winds help one way, hinder the other). You can see the the speeds top out at ~20knots but several ~7knot trips are also records.

The DMG just has a rough average and went with it. If you want to add a splash of realism, assume the route is half again faster the right time of year and half the speed the wrong time of year.

Some web trawling says that Columbus averaged 4 knots with a top speed of 8, but it was a school report. I'm sure if you spend 15 minutes googling you can come up with something useful.

 

[Darklone]

What was the longest distance you've ever walked or even rode in fullplate ?

A cart is slow but it's so much more comfortable... I've heard guys who like to climb castlewalls in fullplate complain about walking more than 1 mile.

 

[Ridley's Cohort]

A wagon is just a horse dragging a load. I would believe these numbers as being about right.

The strange thing is an infantryman can walk approximately as far or further than a horseman in a day averaged over the long haul. Bipedalism is more efficient for long hikes that quadrapedalism.

Nonetheless your infantry-only army is not going to have much luck walking its way to the big battle against the horsemen. You can only carry only 1-2 weeks of food on your back, you have to know which way to go (horsemen can lead you in circles), the Mongols (and other armies) did bring spare horses so they could swap for fresh, and you will be dependent on wagons hauling food (which are very vulnerable to attack by horsemen) if you are going to keep the military campaign going.

 

[Victim]

Ships can also move 24 hours a day, which a bit tough for humans.

 

[Ridley's Cohort]

Ships can also move 24 hours a day, which a bit tough for humans.

Can. But typically did not, except for those far out to sea, or piloted by a navigator who really knew every inch of the route like the back of his hand.

48 miles is not an unreasonable average. Under good conditions, I would expect double that. Under poor, half or less.

 

[Klaus]

Also note that walking/riding speeds are affected by the terrain, whereas ships are far less subject to changing conditions.

 

[Tonguez]

Also note that walking/riding speeds are affected by the terrain, whereas ships are far less subject to changing conditions.

Ships are affected by changes in wind, swells, climatic conditions, depth, current, whales, sea serpents, gaint turtles etc etc the 'terrain' is as varied as any other...

 

[Elethiomel]

As for rowboats, the advantage on a placid river in an otherwise untamed wilderness should be obvious - walking and riding will be severely disadvantaged by terrain and shrubberies (unless you're a druid), while the rowboat continues unhindered. On a less placid river, rowboats have even more of an advantage downstream, but less of one upstream.