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Message: <blockquote data-quote="eamon" data-source="post: 5246131" data-attributes="member: 51942">Deliberately undermining the game is nevertheless undermining the game - whether it was deliberate or not has no bearing on whether it was wise.  When I said everyone takes (versatile) expertise, I meant that everyone takes either versatile expertise, implement expertise and weapon expertise. Assuming you have expertise, then for Dual strike (as mentioned) swift blade style is a +1 bonus to attack and damage rolls for OA's.  That's probably worse than blade opportunist right off the bat.  Except you don't get the bonus always, you get it only after using dual strike and only if both attacks hits... it's pointless.I see your point - fair enough.  My perspective is that the alternative, which is to grant everyone +1/+2/+3 at levels 5/15/25 rather than the current incarnation of expertise, renders this feat actually playable across levels.  These three feats are the problematic feats before the expertise errata; changing expertise again would clearly necessitate changing them too.  However, I don't think you can reasonable consider the feats relevant as is, which is a shame.  Draconic spellcaster is probably the strongest of the tree and may be fine - however, the feat is equivalent to Weapon focus unless a caster only has a particular damage type in his arsenal, in which case it saves a feat slot.  The other two are not fine, however - these are not usable by builds that can reasonably exclusively use their spells, and as such expertise is still necessary.  Which means they degrade to a conditional damage bonus that doesn't stack with weapon focus.  It's particularly hilarious for the illusion line since some of these don't have damage rolls at all; if it's what you want, you might as well consider a weapon and weapon focus.  These feats are generally redundant at best; and in the case of gnome phantasmist almost certainly unattractive - despite being the only meaningful feat support for the gnome illusionist.  To be clear though, I'd much rather see these three feats disappear entirely together with expertise than maintain the status quo.  Heck, if the get rid of the scaling bonus and don't fix expertise I'd be happier since at least it makes house-ruling expertise easier.Attacking NADs or not matters for monsters (since not all PC NADs scale well), but it doesn't matter for PC's - monster NADs scale just as well as AC, and the difference is about 2 (i.e. common weapon proficiency bonus).  Expertertise isn't a good fix because it's too specifically tied to a particular weapon or implement for no apparent reason.  There is an easy fix; simply grant an unnamed bonus at levels 5/15/25 and drop the feats entirely.</blockquote>

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