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Message: <blockquote data-quote="KarinsDad" data-source="post: 4318415" data-attributes="member: 2011">Why should he do that? Protect your leader who isn't there yet, or protect a whole group of followers who are fighting intruders? Even the useage (up to 10 kobolds) and name of the power "Incite Faith" implies it should be used on an allied group.I disagree with your assertion here. That sounds like the opposite of the intent of the power.I'm not talking about outside.I'm talking about inside. The PCs wiped out all but one of the outside guys (one got away) and nobody inside knew about it until that one warned them.Wyrmpriest and the two Dragonshields are illustrated as within 20 to 25 feet of the torch that lights up the entire entrance area.In our campaign, one of the outside guys got away and ran into the lair. He rushed to Wyrmpriest and told him about intruders. Wyrmpriest sent one of the Dragonshields to warn Irontooth.The PCs crept in shortly thereafter (being slow and cautious, they gave the kobolds time to prepare a little, however, they did not take a 5 minute rest which ended up with the Warlock having used 2 encounter powers outside and not having them for the big fight) and had those two rooms of bad guys (plus the one who rushed in) for a total of 12 enemies (which I sent at them 4 at a time for 3 rounds).They mostly fought in that intersection by the torch and Wyrmpriest moved near the other torch 10 feet away and that is why his burst got a good percentage of the minions (several of which had moved around to that side of the cave and were using javelins, so they were in the larger cave with Wyrmpriest).Irontooth and the other 4 on the other end of the cave system grabbed weapons and rushed outside. Seeing the dead kobolds, they traveled around and came at the PCs from behind (which I had take 5 rounds).Now, I deviated some from the first wave / second wave text, but that can happen with any scenario. The text was stupid. It implied that the entire left hand group (including the ones 80+ feet away behind two walls) would fight the PCs while the 3 on the right hand side 25 feet away and in plain sight would just stand there with their thumbs up their butts.It really is like playing CoV the way that wave text was written.And, even gradually adding enemies like I did, the PCs were still outclassed. They used a daily power and an encounter power on Irontooth, hit with both (one was a crit), and still did not even bloody him.It's obvious (to me at least) that having an encounter 5 levels above the PCs is doomed to PC failure the vast majority of the time, regardless of the DMG "more than 7 level above is too hard" claim. There are just too many variables and it's too easy for the PCs to blow through good encounter and daily powers without a large effect in an encounter 5 levels above.Personally, I would limit it to +/- 3 levels. Even the recent podcast of 2 levels higher had the PCs running away.People are used to playing DND where the PCs generally triumph, but I suspect that 4E higher than the PC level encounters will result in either many TPKs, or many run aways (possibly leaving one or two PCs behind on the ground).</blockquote>

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