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Message: <blockquote data-quote="ThirdWizard" data-source="post: 2697792" data-attributes="member: 12037">First of all, I have nothing against occassional puzzles if the other players enjoy them. Just like I hope a hack and slasher will put up with my roleplaying, I will enjoy myself if we encounter a puzzle if the others are because that's the kind of guy I am. I might not enjoy the puzzle, but I will enjoy playing with people who are enjoying themselves. It is only when the puzzles start to show up too often or taking too long individually to figure out that I'll start to get annoyed.To answer, "why is the puzzle there," one must answer, "who put the puzzle there," then you must answer, "why am I being tested?" Mosnters are there to kill you, as are traps. Puzzles are there to let you through. If they really wanted to stop you, then they wouldn't give you clues on how to continue on (which is what a puzzle is).They also have to know someone will be coming through, and expect certain individuals to make it through. Plan on it, in fact. The riddle in Monty Python and the Holy Grail is the first one that pops into my head (and yes, I realize that it is parody, real ones arn't like this). They are supposed to make it to the Grail and the puzzle is to prove thier worth. Running across a puzzle in an ancient lich's lair, or whatnot, makes no sense. Suspension of belief goes bye bye.One of my gripes with puzzles is that there is one solution, the DM knows it, and the Players must discover what that solution is to progress. With a monster, you can sneak around, subdue it with spells, talk to it, or kill it outright in combat. To name a few ways of dealing with them. At least, that's how it works in my games. The Players can find solutions to problems that the DM didn't even anticipate. This is another reason I prefer intrigue oriented campaigns, because this opens up even more possibilities for the Players to explore. I rarely have site based adventures in my games, and even more rarely have dungeons.Puzzles, as opposed to this, have one solution. There is little room for the Players to wiggle around in when a puzzle is involved. Alternate methods would go far with me. Perhaps the puzzle merely helps bypass a danger. Or solving it gives clues to a secret cache located somewhere. Or not solving it in three rounds inflicts some kind of damage on the PCs much like a trap. That's fine. Heck, that's even fun because we know we don't have to do the puzzle or leave.The penalty for not solving a puzzle is generally singular. You try to solve it again. Fix that, and you're good.If you escape from a vampire, you can go back and prepare to face the vampire again, more prepared than before. The PCs can attain silver weapons, stakes, spells that harm undead, etc. When they return, they are now better prepared to fight the vampire, though he will probably be ready for you. The situation has changed, and the PCs can now try and adapt to the situation as best they can.Puzzles, generally, are static and unchanging. The PCs can leave and come back no more prepared than they were before. If you allow the PCs to research something about the puzzle, consult sages, pay others for information or possible solutions, and whatnot to help solve the puzzle, then I will agree that these are the same thing. I would say, however, that you are in the minority, at least in my experience.</blockquote>

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