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Message: <blockquote data-quote="Mishihari Lord" data-source="post: 2705873" data-attributes="member: 128">This has been a good discussion for me because I've been working on and off on coming up with some social mechanics that works for me.  As you've probably guessed, the current one doesn't.   <img src="https://cdn.jsdelivr.net/joypixels/assets/8.0/png/unicode/64/1f600.png" class="smilie smilie--emoji" loading="lazy" width="64" height="64" alt=":D" title="Big grin    :D"  data-smilie="8"data-shortname=":D" />   I've been able to get some good insights from others as well as clarify my own position to myself.  Anyway, on to the discussion ...Sure, staying in character and being persuausive at the same time is tough, but, hey that's part of the fun.  As you say, you probably won't ever be as persuasive as the guy who get +20 on his check, but when checking for success, I don't expect that.  If you come up with a really good argument for a regular person I'll probably judge that you succeed.  If I were using the skill, I'd probably do it like this "You made a good case, that's +7, your skill is 14, for a total of 21.  I set the TN at 20, so he's persuaded"  Or include a random element, whatever.Fortune at the start mechanics such as you suggest have never appealed to me.  If I'm doing something in-game, I want it to affect what's happening.  Roleplaying an interaction when I already know how things will turn out seems like a waste of time.What I did was waste time and effort on an attempt that couldn't succeed while the other guy succeeded without any such expenditure.  I guess I value such personal resources over character resources.  This is probably just an issue of clarifying expectation ahead of time.  If I knew that mechanics would determine results ahead of time, I'd be fine with that, but I wouldn't put any effort into dialogue either.The incentive is to keep using in-game dialogue and thereby get better at it, making the game more fun.  You make some good points here which basically describe why I'm trying to come up with a mechanical system I like.  A pseudo-Ghandi would be fun to play, but I certainly can't do it just with RP.  I'm leaning towards dialogue + skill > TN, which would provide incentive both to use persuasive dialogue and to get the skills.  The thing I find unsatisfactory here is that no matter how high your skill, you still can't speak like Ghandi and won't get the satisfaction of speaking that well, only the succeses that would derive from it.  I'm pretty sure there's no solution to this.</blockquote>

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