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Message: <blockquote data-quote="DamionW" data-source="post: 2708773" data-attributes="member: 18649">Actually this still isn't my question.  What I see with your choice of playstyle is this:When a PC controlled by a player interacts with any other character in your game world, the attitude the other character walks away from the conversation with is based on the player's word choice and portrayal.  There's no need for a CHA check, a Diplomacy skill, or any other additional mechanic.  That's a correct estimate, right?Well, in real life there are people such as Ghandi, JFK, and Billy Graham, and in fiction such characters as Aragorn and  Wormtongue from Tolkien, or Daenyrys and Tyrion from Martin.  These individuals through different aspects of what could be described as the attribute Charisma were able to influence people on a regular basis with their choice of words and force of will.  These people make important additions to any history, in the real world or in fictional worlds.With your example of Ender Wiggins, you've demonstrated not all character concepts are feasible to be executed by all people.  The players should have certain requisite abilities themselves to support and prtray these concepts.  In order to be a persuasive character, the player must first be persuasive themselves.So my query then becomes:  If it truly is rare to find an actual player who has the propensity to orate with true poignance regularly, how do these vital characters make appearances in your game worlds?  Have any of your players charismatic abilities matched up with that expectation?  Do you only let NPCs attain such positions of influence in your game world?  If they are NPCs, how do you go about faithfully displaying those abilities to the players when they enter the scene?In a system which does allow mechanics to at least supplement RPed dialogue, we can see these characters as having CHA well above 15 and several ranks of diplomacy, bluff, or perform (oratory).  These mechanics may not support such a character concept at first level, but few of the above examples held such powerful influence at the start of their careers.  They honed it through practice and growth, just as the RAW mechanics allow for with ability increases and skill ranks.  Then players could deliver some decent speeches and augment that with successful dice rolling to deliver in the playing groups minds the idea that these extraordinary individuals exist.I can imagine many players delivering one or two really good performances at the table that could influence several people.  But to have the regular ability to draw on vocabulary so deeply profound as to move people with nearly every discussion the way some of the above examples could seems out of the reach of nearly all players unless they could do that in real life.  So how do those characters exist in your game world if nearly nobody can play those roles?  That is my question.So other than dragon mounts, players can't develop cohorts or followers?  Or anyone can attract other people to them, they just need to consistently seek out the other character and RP exchanges over and over until the bond is built?  The one example you're showing me seems an obscure reference to the leadership feat, so I'm trying to imagine how an average player with average persuasive abilities gets people to follow them without any support from mechanics.</blockquote>

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