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Message: <blockquote data-quote="steeldragons" data-source="post: 5923992" data-attributes="member: 92511">Paladins and clerics don't kill each other and take their stuff...they share and borrow from each other. After asking in polite and civil manner, of course.Yes, everything a Cleric of Moradin (or Bahamut or Paladine or ...who's the big "all good" god of FR? or whomever) a paladin probably can (and should be able to) do also.But then a paladin gets the bells and whistles: laying on hands, detecting..."trouble" (from what we've read about their design plans for them, thus far), auras of defense against evil/opposing extraplanar creatures and undead and whatever else is in that gift bag.All of which, imho, ought to come with the price of restrictions, be they alignment, a rigorous "code" or "ideals" or "virtues" or whatever they decide. The paladin is more about the flavor that comes from the added the crunch than the crunch itself.Will SOME Fighter/Clerics or particularly martial clerics be able to rival a paladin or simulate a lot of their abilities? Sure they will. Can they present themselves/RP as beacons of justice and chivalry? Sure. Does that make them and the paladin synonymous or redundant? I tend to think not.Close is close and similar is similar...neither makes them "the same."And just as a side note, I am always left wondering why the parable is "The Cleric & the Paladin" in these kinds of discussions/arguments. What about the Thief/Rogue who likes to be extra stabby/sneaky. Is he stealing the Assassin's stuff? Or is the Assassin taking the Rogue's stuff cuz he can be sneaky and deadly too? The Mage who (we now know) has an array of "at will" (which I equate with "spontaneous") spells on their belt...she's taking the Sorcerer's stuff? Play a "Sorcerer-y Mage" OR play a "Magey-Sorcerer"! That's the fun of making up your own characters n' concepts.You want to play a "bounty-hunter-ish" character. Do you make a Rogue and "Ranger" him up a bit with Tracker/Hunter background and/or weapon's mastery with traps n' non-lethal weapons? Or make a "Ranger" and 'Rogue" him up a bit with added stealth and information gathering via other backgrounds and themes? Or a Rogue-y Fighter or a Rangery-Assassin? Or versa ve?There are LOTS n' LOTS of archetypes and tropes for character concepts that come verrrrry near the mark (if not overstepping by a foot or two) the archetypes and concepts of other characters. But we always see the complaints coming about from Cleric v. Paladin. Why is that? Just wonderin'.But, re: Paladin v. Cleric, that's just me and how I view them and the places they hold in my game world/setting. I don't see clerics as taking the paladins' stuff...just using/sharing some of it.[EDIT: I'll also add that I am coming from the perspective of the Paladin as a Divinely-gifted sub-/specialized brand of Fighter, not a Martially-gifted/specialized brand of Cleric. So, depending on how one approaches/views the Paladin from their base perspective may also be cause for some of the complaints/confusions. Just a guess. /EDIT]--SD</blockquote>

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