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<blockquote data-quote="Malin Genie" data-source="post: 188669" data-attributes="member: 1058">I think on paper Sneak Attacks are incredibly good, and Sneak Attack smacks can deal immense amounts of damage.In practice, I haven't seen the rogues outshine (or even come close to equalling) the Fighters in combat.Part of the reason is that they can't always get into flanking position.Part of the reason is that they rarely get full attacks in flanking position; and if they do, they tend to get full-attacked in return.Part of the reason is they don't hit as often.&nbsp; Even with Finesse (and remember that Rogues get only a very limited number of Feats, and can't take Finesse at all until 3rd level) they're less likely to have Weapon Focus, they have fewer attacks, and a lower BAB. With their lower hp, they can't take the punishment; and if they want to Tumble, they can only wear light armour.&nbsp; If they don't want to Tumble, then they often get AoOed getting into position.As another poster pointed out, to be really effective outside combat, a rogue has to dilute his ability point spending (and if you're silly enough not to use point buy and have a rogue with high stats across the board - well, duh!)&nbsp; In my campaigns (all point buy) I haven't seen Rogues with Str or Con over 12.Rings of Blinking are one way to do a Rogue smack.&nbsp; IMHO that says more about unbalanced magic items than an unbalanced ability.So I don't know.&nbsp; I keep looking at well-designed rogue smacks and thinking &quot;Sheesh!&nbsp; This is ridiculous!&quot;But in the campaigns I actually play in, I just don't see Sneak Attack unbalancing things at all.</blockquote>

[QUOTE="Malin Genie, post: 188669, member: 1058"] I think on paper Sneak Attacks are incredibly good, and Sneak Attack smacks can deal immense amounts of damage. In practice, I haven't seen the rogues outshine (or even come close to equalling) the Fighters in combat. Part of the reason is that they can't always get into flanking position. Part of the reason is that they rarely get full attacks in flanking position; and if they do, they tend to get full-attacked in return. Part of the reason is they don't hit as often. Even with Finesse (and remember that Rogues get only a very limited number of Feats, and can't take Finesse at all until 3rd level) they're less likely to have Weapon Focus, they have fewer attacks, and a lower BAB. With their lower hp, they can't take the punishment; and if they want to Tumble, they can only wear light armour. If they don't want to Tumble, then they often get AoOed getting into position. As another poster pointed out, to be really effective outside combat, a rogue has to dilute his ability point spending (and if you're silly enough not to use point buy and have a rogue with high stats across the board - well, duh!) In my campaigns (all point buy) I haven't seen Rogues with Str or Con over 12. Rings of Blinking are one way to do a Rogue smack. IMHO that says more about unbalanced magic items than an unbalanced ability. So I don't know. I keep looking at well-designed rogue smacks and thinking "Sheesh! This is ridiculous!" But in the campaigns I actually play in, I just don't see Sneak Attack unbalancing things at all. [/QUOTE]

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