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Message: <blockquote data-quote="Mistwell" data-source="post: 6177542" data-attributes="member: 2525">Then I'd say you did something unwise, spending a year making a dungeon before actually talking to your players and asking what they want to do.  What if they get there and simply say, "Yeah, nice dungeon and all, but we're exploring the city and planning a caper at the wizards tower now"? You don't dictate what the players decide to do with their characters, you just adjudicate results.  Why are you spending a year on something that dictates what your players will do?Well, depends on hows it plays out.  Why does the PC join the party, what are they trying to accomplish, what sorts of adventures do they want to go on? I can see a child character that starts out weak but learns as they go as having the potential to be a great PC. I imagine, if the party enters a dungeon and this PC wants to go along, they'd start as a scout (being small, and likely having skills hiding since they survived this long).  So they'd sneak ahead spot the foes and terrain, report back, allowing the rest of the party to plan an ambush.  Maybe the child would then taunt the foes, run away, have the foes chase her into the party's ambush.  Seems like a lot of potential to contribute to the game.Uh, wow.  No, it's not.  There are tons of settings and adventures that involve political intrigue, or investigation, or capers, which involve no monsters.  Monsters are just one possible aspect of the game.  Those are not requirements for D&D, they're just one thing it can do.I appreciate that your games, that's what you focus on.  Please appreciate that not everyone does that, certainly not all the time.And that guy was saying you cannot run a bard/something not related to a bard (level 2 total character) in a Pathfinder Society game, which is objectively false. This idea that you need to run a highly combat optimized character or else you cannot play in Pathfinder Society games is false.  It's up to the player to do what they find fun and hopefully effective.  But the day you start eliminating new players from joining a public game because you feel they didn't optimize their character enough, is the day Pathfinder Society starts dying a slow death as new players get driven away from the game.  Pathfinder Society isn't a "Non-Optimized Characters Need Not Apply" group event.Naw, other way around.  You make the character you want to play, and you make sure to talk to your DM about how to fit that character in.  DM controls the world, the player controls the PC.  The DM doesn't control the PC, nor the player decisions on what PCs to make and how to play them.  If they die they die.  But, DM doesn't get to control all aspects of the game - the PCs are the one aspect they're not in control of.I have no idea what's available in that game...let's stick to discussing D&D in this D&D topic?It's really not.  It might be for you, but there are lots of people who NEVER go into dungeons in their games. I know people who have run a swashbuckling sea adventure game for years and years, and others who have been running political intrigue games for years.  Dungeons are just one possible thing you can do with this game - not the only thing or even primary thing you can do.  What did you think all those city supplements and wilderness supplements and ocean supplements and planes supplements were for?It should support it as one method of playing, for sure.  But it should not force you to play that way.  It should support people who don't play that way, as well.I assure you, a caper adventure can absolutely be run with a diverse group of PCs of a variety of classes and abilities.  It's a blast too.  And D&D has supported this type of adventure from the very beginning, and in every edition of D&D, on some level.That's a shame.  There is a lot you can do in that sort of situation.  But, if you didn't like it, that's cool.  Just understand, many people do, so that sort of adventure should be supported by the rules.There is no part of the game that inherently excludes everyone else.  A good DM can adapt to make sure everyone's enjoying things no matter what the party decides to do.  I find it particularly interesting you keep mentioning puzzles.  I like puzzles, but this is an aspect of the game that's both poorly supported by most rules, and also that a lot of players say is very boring to them.  You will find 10 times the number of wilderness and city adventure support, than you will puzzle adventure support.  So, it seems you get this idea that you can make something that is shrouded by the perception of being not for everyone, into something that everyone can appreciate.  You seem to have done it with puzzles.  So, can you understand those other types of adventures might be like that one?</blockquote>

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