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<blockquote data-quote="Mark1733" data-source="post: 6177585" data-attributes="member: 83142"><p>I haven't read all 5 pages of this thread, but I am throwing my 2 cents in.&nbsp; Sorry if I repeat any aforementioned ideas.&nbsp; I like the idea of Sneak Attack being optional, but only in a &quot;when do I get to use it?&quot; timing sense.&nbsp; I am a 3.5 guy and think the typical paths for the rogue are analogous to the fighting preference of the ranger--two-handed vs archery.&nbsp; But first, let's agree that all Rogues need DEX in some way because at a minimum, all rogues are at some point hiding and/or moving silently.&nbsp; With that said, I am thinking that rogues have three key areas of expertise that differentiate them from the other classes:&nbsp; opportunistic fighting, lock/trap expertise, and con artistry, each driven moreso by other abilities--STR, INT, and CHA respectively.&nbsp; I think one method would be to rank these skills sets 1-2-3 -- primary, secondary, tertiary.&nbsp; Then assign power paths to each.&nbsp; These could be sets of powers and/or additional feats from which they select an extra one every so many levels. There are Fighter Bonus Feats, and Metamagic and Item Creation Feats--why not a set of Rogue bonus feats.&nbsp; The Primary power path begins at 1st level, the but the others are delayed by 2 levels for each thing.&nbsp; So...if they pick the opportunistic fighting, they get sneak attack at 1st level, but trapfinding, trap sense, etc are all delayed either by 2 or 4 levels depending on whether they made that path secondary or tertiary.&nbsp; If they pick opportunistic fighting as their second path, they get Sneak Attack at level 3; if its their third path, it begins at level 5. I always thought leaving the Con Artist path exclusively to skills rather than special class features was a miss--being a super-bluffer, master forger, or a sleight of hand/pickpocketer can be really fun, but you have spend loads of skill points and feats to really excel.&nbsp; So, with all that being said...Sneak Attack becomes more of an option if the character chooses to when exactly to get it--however, they will gain the ability at some point, provided they don't die first.&nbsp; I didn't lay out a perfect plan here, but just something to toss around and see what sticks.&nbsp; Thanks.</p></blockquote><p></p>

[QUOTE="Mark1733, post: 6177585, member: 83142"] I haven't read all 5 pages of this thread, but I am throwing my 2 cents in. Sorry if I repeat any aforementioned ideas. I like the idea of Sneak Attack being optional, but only in a "when do I get to use it?" timing sense. I am a 3.5 guy and think the typical paths for the rogue are analogous to the fighting preference of the ranger--two-handed vs archery. But first, let's agree that all Rogues need DEX in some way because at a minimum, all rogues are at some point hiding and/or moving silently. With that said, I am thinking that rogues have three key areas of expertise that differentiate them from the other classes: opportunistic fighting, lock/trap expertise, and con artistry, each driven moreso by other abilities--STR, INT, and CHA respectively. I think one method would be to rank these skills sets 1-2-3 -- primary, secondary, tertiary. Then assign power paths to each. These could be sets of powers and/or additional feats from which they select an extra one every so many levels. There are Fighter Bonus Feats, and Metamagic and Item Creation Feats--why not a set of Rogue bonus feats. The Primary power path begins at 1st level, the but the others are delayed by 2 levels for each thing. So...if they pick the opportunistic fighting, they get sneak attack at 1st level, but trapfinding, trap sense, etc are all delayed either by 2 or 4 levels depending on whether they made that path secondary or tertiary. If they pick opportunistic fighting as their second path, they get Sneak Attack at level 3; if its their third path, it begins at level 5. I always thought leaving the Con Artist path exclusively to skills rather than special class features was a miss--being a super-bluffer, master forger, or a sleight of hand/pickpocketer can be really fun, but you have spend loads of skill points and feats to really excel. So, with all that being said...Sneak Attack becomes more of an option if the character chooses to when exactly to get it--however, they will gain the ability at some point, provided they don't die first. I didn't lay out a perfect plan here, but just something to toss around and see what sticks. Thanks. [/QUOTE]

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