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<blockquote data-quote="Mistwell" data-source="post: 6177795" data-attributes="member: 2525">Effectively, they don't.&nbsp; The entire marketplace for the games you mentioned is so miniscule that it doesn't even make up 1/100th of the sales of D&amp;D-related games.&nbsp; You can go on about Dresden Files and Dread and other great games like that all you want, but effectively they're not the competition for D&amp;D and not a consideration.People have always used D&amp;D to play some horror, some politics, some social, some caper, some investigation, etc..&nbsp; And they will still use it to do those things, even if you don't like it, and even if you think other games do those things better.&nbsp; The game has ALWAYS supported all those things to one extent or another, and will continue to do so.&nbsp; Again, it's ALWAYS done all those things, since the 1970s.&nbsp; You'd be diluting it to remove those things.&nbsp; And yes, I am marginalizing those indie games you mentioned, BECAUSE THEY'RE MARGINALIZED.&nbsp; You almost only hear about them in online forums.&nbsp; The mass bulk of the RPG playing community is playing a D&amp;D-variant game, not Dogs in the Vineyard or whatever, no matter how awesome those games are.&nbsp; So it's perfectly fine for me to talk about the types of things D&amp;D has always supported without reference to other games, particularly in the D&amp;D forum of a D&amp;D-themed website.Of course you want it watered down.&nbsp; You want to remove tropes from the game that it's always done. You want no Ravenloft, for example.&nbsp; You want no Dragonlance political intrigue.&nbsp; You want to remove elements form the game that it has always done pretty well, that thousands of people have enjoyed, because you personally think other much smaller indie games can do those things better.&nbsp; Well, that's obviously not going to happen.&nbsp; They're going to support horror with D&amp;D for example, even if Call of Cthulu or Dread does horror better.&nbsp; Only one guy in this conversation is talking about making a fundamental change to D&amp;D, and it's not me.&nbsp; I want D&amp;D to continue to support the same set of tropes it's always supported.&nbsp; You want to remove some because you think other smaller games do them better.</blockquote>

[QUOTE="Mistwell, post: 6177795, member: 2525"] Effectively, they don't. The entire marketplace for the games you mentioned is so miniscule that it doesn't even make up 1/100th of the sales of D&D-related games. You can go on about Dresden Files and Dread and other great games like that all you want, but effectively they're not the competition for D&D and not a consideration. People have always used D&D to play some horror, some politics, some social, some caper, some investigation, etc.. And they will still use it to do those things, even if you don't like it, and even if you think other games do those things better. The game has ALWAYS supported all those things to one extent or another, and will continue to do so. Again, it's ALWAYS done all those things, since the 1970s. You'd be diluting it to remove those things. And yes, I am marginalizing those indie games you mentioned, BECAUSE THEY'RE MARGINALIZED. You almost only hear about them in online forums. The mass bulk of the RPG playing community is playing a D&D-variant game, not Dogs in the Vineyard or whatever, no matter how awesome those games are. So it's perfectly fine for me to talk about the types of things D&D has always supported without reference to other games, particularly in the D&D forum of a D&D-themed website. Of course you want it watered down. You want to remove tropes from the game that it's always done. You want no Ravenloft, for example. You want no Dragonlance political intrigue. You want to remove elements form the game that it has always done pretty well, that thousands of people have enjoyed, because you personally think other much smaller indie games can do those things better. Well, that's obviously not going to happen. They're going to support horror with D&D for example, even if Call of Cthulu or Dread does horror better. Only one guy in this conversation is talking about making a fundamental change to D&D, and it's not me. I want D&D to continue to support the same set of tropes it's always supported. You want to remove some because you think other smaller games do them better. [/QUOTE]

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