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<blockquote data-quote="ThirdWizard" data-source="post: 6178062" data-attributes="member: 12037">Lets not get off topic here. We're talking about trading a character's basic combat ability for a non-combat ability. None of those are examples of that. In fact, you haven't given a single example of that. We're not talking about passing up a combat feat for a non-combat feat. We're talking about passing up Sneak Attack, the rogue's main combat feature. It would be like a wizard no longer having spells but only rituals that take 10 minutes to cast. I don't think I'm the one cherry picking. Remember, to stay on topic, it has to be a trade of a combat ability for a non-combat one. And not just any combat ability, but one that pretty much is the character's entire combat schtick. If the rogue loses sneak attack, he might as well go get a pizza during combat and let everybody else take care of it.I know you hate talking about other RPGs for some reason, but this reminds me of one of the worst problems with Shadowrun. The decker has his thing, hacking, and everybody else has their thing, everything else. So if the Decker is hacking, he's playing his own little minigame. If he's not hacking, he's just kind of watching everybody else. This is problematic for gameplay. Nobody wants to be a spectator in an RPG. They want to play!I doubt we'll agree on this, and it doesn't actually apply to the conversation at all, so we should just drop the whole &quot;Is Ravenloft horror&quot; thread.</blockquote>

[QUOTE="ThirdWizard, post: 6178062, member: 12037"] Lets not get off topic here. We're talking about trading a character's basic combat ability for a non-combat ability. None of those are examples of that. In fact, you haven't given a single example of that. We're not talking about passing up a combat feat for a non-combat feat. We're talking about passing up Sneak Attack, the rogue's main combat feature. It would be like a wizard no longer having spells but only rituals that take 10 minutes to cast. I don't think I'm the one cherry picking. Remember, to stay on topic, it has to be a [i]trade[/i] of a combat ability for a non-combat one. And not just any combat ability, but one that pretty much is the character's entire combat schtick. If the rogue loses sneak attack, he might as well go get a pizza during combat and let everybody else take care of it. I know you hate talking about other RPGs for some reason, but this reminds me of one of the worst problems with Shadowrun. The decker has his thing, hacking, and everybody else has their thing, everything else. So if the Decker is hacking, he's playing his own little minigame. If he's not hacking, he's just kind of watching everybody else. This is problematic for gameplay. Nobody wants to be a spectator in an RPG. They want to play! I doubt we'll agree on this, and it doesn't actually apply to the conversation at all, so we should just drop the whole "Is Ravenloft horror" thread. [/QUOTE]

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