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Message: <blockquote data-quote="mach1.9pants" data-source="post: 4065454" data-attributes="member: 55946">Well to keep the thread length down I thought I'd split this part off from the rest of the Rogue class discussion. I feel it is something that is really important:Not many skills and proficiencies:"Armor Training: LeatherWeapon Proficiencies: Dagger, hand crossbow, shuriken, sling, short swordTrained Skills: Stealth and Thievery plus four others. From the class skills list below, choose four more trained skills at 1st level.Class Skills: Acrobatics (Dexterity), Athletics (Str), Bluff (Cha), Dungeoneering (Wis), Insight (Wis), Intimidate (Cha), Perception (Wis), Stealth (Dexterity), Streetwise (Cha), Thievery (Dexterity)"So...Profs:1. Either Leather means upto leather armour or godd old peasant padded is gone..2. That is not many weapons, what happened to the rapier- the quintessintial rogue wep IMO. Does it include lots of basic weps (not listed- club for example) that everyone/ every heroic class is proficient with? Do we think that there are less weapons in 4E or are rogues losing out a lot. I'll add short bow to the list of missing important rogue (3E anyway) weapons?Skills: 6 trained skills MAN I always thought that 8 was not enough, I know they have been folded into together but most Rogues in 3E played with a +2 INT so 10 (+1 for human). To me that is low. But I suppose it depends on what is included in 'theivery' if it is open locks, pick pockets/sleight of hand, find and disarm trap etc it brings you on par with 3E but certainly not more.No INT bonus means you can do little to effect that. My next rogue? INT 8 <img src="https://cdn.jsdelivr.net/joypixels/assets/8.0/png/unicode/64/1f609.png" class="smilie smilie--emoji" loading="lazy" width="64" height="64" alt=";)" title="Wink    ;)"  data-smilie="2"data-shortname=";)" />Let the raging, err I mean discussions beginEDIT: but man o man bring on 4E this looks awesome, and thanks WotC for some crunchy goodness</blockquote>

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