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Message: <blockquote data-quote="ARandomGod" data-source="post: 2550212" data-attributes="member: 17296">Me too, me too. Of course, as I hinted earlier, I've had a number of characters get Uncanny Dodge... and they've always considered the "I can't be surprise sneak attacked" a part of the "I can't be surprised denied my dex". Generally speaking it's high dex people who I have get uncanny dodge, and mainly I admit it's to avoid losing Dex against invisible and unexpected (IE flat-footed) attacks. But by extention ... the *feel* of the ability to me is simply an uncanny awareness, one that allows you to overcome sudden, surprise attacks. Therefore ones from invisible attackers and from things that would otherwise catch you unaware. And that's the definition of why rogues get a sneak attack against someone who's flat footed. And therefore, while I do see your logic, I wouldn't like the feel of having my preternatural awareness become "except for rogues, since they get such a big bonus if you're unaware of them". Although a "four levels higher" ruling could be palatable, I still wouldn't *like* it.  I mean, they can still flank (and therefore get sneak attacks), they just can no longer surprise the character. Which is where I think that balance should be, what that ability is meant to do. As for an invisible AND surprise attack (where one without Uncanny Dodge would be flatfooted)... I don't think I'd find a ruling that these double trump as a palatable ruling. All invisible attacks come as if you don't know they're coming. All surprise attacks come as if you don't know they're coming. You really aren't more penalized in any (other) way for an opponent being invisible AND surprising you, so this shouldn't get a synergy bonus from that either.</blockquote>

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