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Sneak Attack with spells?
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<blockquote data-quote="Vince_Snetterton" data-source="post: 8466561" data-attributes="member: 7033114"><p>OK, if you want to discuss this as a House Rule, fine.</p><p></p><p>Executive Summary:</p><p>It introduces more power creep into the game, with more damage possible. (see math =below)</p><p>An Arcane Trickster can chuck attack based cantrips all day long, not worrying about running out of arrows. </p><p>Firebolt, as an example, has a range of 120 feet, while a Short Bow has a normal range of 80 feet. </p><p>Firebolt is a VS spell, and only requires one hand, while a Short Bow requires 2.</p><p></p><p>Math:</p><p>Not so much at 1st tier, but starting with 2nd tier chars, it is a problem.</p><p></p><p>Say a char is an Arcane Trickster, with Firebolt as a Cantrip. </p><p>Assume the char was built with 27 point buy, so best case, has a sub-20 Dex below 8th level, meaning a +4 on attacks. </p><p>An arrow fired from a Short Bow by said Arcane Trickster has an expected value of damage of 7.5 (3.5 + Dex of 4).</p><p>Firebolt from same 5th to 7th level Rogue = 2d10 = 11 expected value damage. </p><p></p><p>At 8th level, assuming Rogue took Dex to 20, Expected Value = 8.5, and is capped there.</p><p>But let's assume the Rogue has a +1 Bow by then, and that bumps damage to 9.5</p><p>That is is as high as it is going to get, for a long time. </p><p>But Firebolt, at 11th level, that becomes 3d10, or 16.5 expected damage. </p><p></p><p>I won't do the math on an Arcane Trickster that takes Scorching Ray at 8th level......</p><p></p><p>And potential niche case:</p><p>I am also not going to get into the math of an player taking a 2 level dip into Warlock, specifically Hexblade, and then firing up Sneak Attack on Eldritch Blast, with Agonizing Blast, and all the additional Hexblade features. I will leave that to you to visualize.</p><p></p><p>So...if a DM is interested in maintaining balance in their game, spell attacks qualifying for Sneak Attack is a bad idea.</p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="Vince_Snetterton, post: 8466561, member: 7033114"] OK, if you want to discuss this as a House Rule, fine. Executive Summary: It introduces more power creep into the game, with more damage possible. (see math =below) An Arcane Trickster can chuck attack based cantrips all day long, not worrying about running out of arrows. Firebolt, as an example, has a range of 120 feet, while a Short Bow has a normal range of 80 feet. Firebolt is a VS spell, and only requires one hand, while a Short Bow requires 2. Math: Not so much at 1st tier, but starting with 2nd tier chars, it is a problem. Say a char is an Arcane Trickster, with Firebolt as a Cantrip. Assume the char was built with 27 point buy, so best case, has a sub-20 Dex below 8th level, meaning a +4 on attacks. An arrow fired from a Short Bow by said Arcane Trickster has an expected value of damage of 7.5 (3.5 + Dex of 4). Firebolt from same 5th to 7th level Rogue = 2d10 = 11 expected value damage. At 8th level, assuming Rogue took Dex to 20, Expected Value = 8.5, and is capped there. But let's assume the Rogue has a +1 Bow by then, and that bumps damage to 9.5 That is is as high as it is going to get, for a long time. But Firebolt, at 11th level, that becomes 3d10, or 16.5 expected damage. I won't do the math on an Arcane Trickster that takes Scorching Ray at 8th level...... And potential niche case: I am also not going to get into the math of an player taking a 2 level dip into Warlock, specifically Hexblade, and then firing up Sneak Attack on Eldritch Blast, with Agonizing Blast, and all the additional Hexblade features. I will leave that to you to visualize. So...if a DM is interested in maintaining balance in their game, spell attacks qualifying for Sneak Attack is a bad idea. [/QUOTE]
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