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<blockquote data-quote="dco" data-source="post: 7571151">The assassin deals a lot of damage but only if the enemy is surprised and for one round, that's what the subclass does. Beyond that the damage for rogues is good but not that good, for example by lvl 20 we are talking about 12d6+5=47 average damage for the rogue with two shortswords vs 8d6+20=48 damage for the fighter with a greatsword. The fighter can deal more damage thanks to other features like combat maneuvers or improved criticals, fighting style and action surge. One note, the original balance could change a lot with feats and multiclassing.As you see Rogues only have one attack but the damage is practically the same as the fighter, clerics with divine strike end with +2d8, that's like one extra one handed weapon attack. For example Paladins get up to 2d8 at level 11, that's one extra one handed weapon attack (at lvl 11 the fighter has 3). Pure mechanical differences, the rogue could gain attacks as the fighter instead of sneak attack, the cleric an extra one and the paladin another one at lvl 11, or the fighter could get d8 for his 2 attacks, or all could have something like sneak and only one attack.My advice is to think of it as an abstraction and avoid most changes, not worth it. In this case with sneak attack against contructs or undead the rulebooks's explanation is that what matters is the distraction, but you can explain it how you want, personally if players add dexterity to weapon attacks I don't see why sneak could not also have the same reasoning behind it.</blockquote>

[QUOTE="dco, post: 7571151"] The assassin deals a lot of damage but only if the enemy is surprised and for one round, that's what the subclass does. Beyond that the damage for rogues is good but not that good, for example by lvl 20 we are talking about 12d6+5=47 average damage for the rogue with two shortswords vs 8d6+20=48 damage for the fighter with a greatsword. The fighter can deal more damage thanks to other features like combat maneuvers or improved criticals, fighting style and action surge. One note, the original balance could change a lot with feats and multiclassing. As you see Rogues only have one attack but the damage is practically the same as the fighter, clerics with divine strike end with +2d8, that's like one extra one handed weapon attack. For example Paladins get up to 2d8 at level 11, that's one extra one handed weapon attack (at lvl 11 the fighter has 3). Pure mechanical differences, the rogue could gain attacks as the fighter instead of sneak attack, the cleric an extra one and the paladin another one at lvl 11, or the fighter could get d8 for his 2 attacks, or all could have something like sneak and only one attack. My advice is to think of it as an abstraction and avoid most changes, not worth it. In this case with sneak attack against contructs or undead the rulebooks's explanation is that what matters is the distraction, but you can explain it how you want, personally if players add dexterity to weapon attacks I don't see why sneak could not also have the same reasoning behind it. [/QUOTE]

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