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Message: <blockquote data-quote="Metheus" data-source="post: 77975" data-attributes="member: 2148">YesI agree with what simonski is saying for the most part. I also agree strongly with reapersaurus. After playing 3E for a little over a year, all I can say is that it feels exactly like Diablo and Baldur's Gate. While this may be the campaign, its also partially the 3E philosophy.What most games become, unless everyone playing agrees, is running through a dungeon looking for items and gold to take back to town so you can look at the magic items shopping list. Magic items used to be somewhat rare, even in high level 1E and 2E campaigns. Now every mid level character has 5 pounds of magic baubles on them at any time.One thing you never heard in any of the previous D+D incarnations, but comes up quite a bit now: "I only need 1200 gp more until I can get that sword +2" Seems to be straight out of a computer game.I like the idea more and more of going with feat lists instead of character abilities. That way, higher level rogues can take things like death touch without becoming assassins, or mages can pick up sneak attack. I know its a different system than 3E D+D, but, as I said, I think 3E has some serious weaknesses in terms of roleplaying over rollplaying.Forgotten Realms, which is a great campaign setting (if not exactly original in its ideas), is the perfect example of this change in philosophy. In previous editions, most of the land was not detailed, and things like spellfire, Chosen of Mystra, and drow were only peripheral. The 3E version has drow everywhere, every 3rd person is a Chosen of Mystra, the desert is full of shades, and any bum you come across in the street could be a 12th level mage just brimming with items to wipe the smile off your face. Did there really need to be a 26th level illusionist brothel owner? The population of the Realms has blown up too. Take a look from even the newest Volo's guide (2E) to the FRCS and you can see huge increases in every town. Archendale goes from something like 1500 to 9000+ in a matter of about a year of Realmstime. I guess all the Godswar survivors just reproduced for a year, and in this period when no adventurer or commoner left their beds, the drow and shades decided it was safe to come back. Since reproducing that much was strenuous work, and since everything you did in 2E got you an XP bonus, everyone in the Realms gained 5 levels going from 2E to 3E. Just a thought...Yes, I know the rules are going to be combat oriented, but its also the core rules that allow the shopping list of vorpal weapons mentality, where magic items prices no longer become suggestions but a hard and fast bluebook list with the same prices from Faerun to Oerth.  The rules do not in any way encourage roleplaying. While it might be tough to add rules on how to roleplay, the utter lack of roleplaying hints and suggestions (I'm not talking about the extra books they came out with like Song and Silence, which is just a weak, watered down Complete Thieves' Guide) leaves the game way too wide open for munchkinism, CRPG thinking, min/maxing (how many threads have you seen on the board that say 'create me an interesting character' as opposed to 'min/max me a cleric, mage, monk, or combo'), and a lack of roleplaying finesse to get through situations (why ask the shopclerk when you can just roll a Gather Information check and have the info drop in your lap; why try to talk tough to get results when you can just roll an Intimidate check). Why roleplay a fighter that is sneaky and slightly crafty when you can just slap on a level of rogue and forget all that backstory/roleplaying silliness. Why would you want a scout-type rogue that can run longer and faster than other rogues when you can just slap on a level of barbarian and get fast movement. Or better yet, why waste skillpoints teaching a barbarian to read when you could just slap on any other class and BAM, instant scholar.I know what you're talking about Simonski when you mean to recapture the grittier epic adventure of earlier editions. A campaign can be epic without having god-like uber-characters pitted against 2 dimensional uber-monsters. Even community stuff like Fight Club and the Pit help promote the statblock vs statblock mentality while trying to find the most min/maxed combos in the game. Thats not roleplaying, its statistics.I dont know, I guess I've gotten to the point where if given the choice between 'love it or leave it' I have to say leave it...</blockquote>

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