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Message: <blockquote data-quote="Storm Raven" data-source="post: 292058" data-attributes="member: 307">At high levels, invisibility is often not that useful, since many high level foes are either not affected by the fact that you are invisible (as in, they have Uncanny Dodge) or have no trouble seeing invisible opponents.Yep, in the partial round of a surpirse round you only get one shot. But most rogues have high Dexterity modifiers and many have Improved Initiative so that they can get the higher initiative score in the first round of combat. In many of those cases, the rogue not only gets his single attack in the partial action, but also gets a full attack in the first round.You also missed the fact that a rogue using melee weapons (as opposed to a rogue using a ranged weapon, like a Ray of Frost), can sneak attack while flanking. The Ray of Frost trick only works against opponents denied their Dexterity bonus, and that is a limited circumstance.You missed that with multiple attacks from a flanking position you are likely to be able to attack many more times with sneak attack potential.A 9th level rogue/1st level ranger saves on feats and attacks slightly better, but that is a minor issue.Perhaps using actual CR 10 opponents for example AC woul make more sense than making crap up. Because very few CR 10 opponents have an AC of 27. Like, say, a Fire Giant (CR 10, AC 21), or a Retriever (CR 10, AC 22), or an 8 headed Lenerean hydra (CR 10, AC 15). If you do the analysis with some actual CR 10 opponents, you will find that your numbers run quite differently.How did the enemy get himself a potion of haste in the first round of combat? How is he flat footed but still under the effect of a potion with an extremely limited duration? You example makes no sense.So he has less damage potential in this somewhat limited and contrived circumstance in which you have an opponent with an AC much higher than similar opponents at this CR, and who is denied his Dexterity bonus, and who is specifically designed to be vulnerable to touch attacks and not physical attacks. And he has an edge of less than one point of damage. Wow. Talk about overpowered.Your example is contrived and worthless. It bears no realtion to most CR 10 opponents, and is specifically desgned to allow the touch attacker to shine. Against more typical foes, the Ray of Frost is clearly suboptimal. Which means that the rest of your argument has no merit.And he has to switch weapons in the middle of combat, costing him time, a full round of actions as a matter of fact (to put the wand away, and draw his weapons, unless he has Quick-Draw, in which case I suppose he could just spend time putting the wand away, in either case it costs him a full round of attacks, costing him about 15 points of damage in your example. What a great strategy that is. <img src="https://cdn.jsdelivr.net/joypixels/assets/8.0/png/unicode/64/1f644.png" class="smilie smilie--emoji" loading="lazy" width="64" height="64" alt=":rolleyes:" title="Roll eyes    :rolleyes:"  data-smilie="11"data-shortname=":rolleyes:" /> )Basically, you are talking out of your behind here.</blockquote>

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