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<blockquote data-quote="Gaiden" data-source="post: 1885873" data-attributes="member: 103">I disagree.&nbsp; What you say would be true if the moving out was not part of the actual attack.&nbsp; When the rogue moves out of concealment, he is making his attack in the form of a grapple touch attack.&nbsp; Between the time he moves out and makes the attack, I presume you are suggesting is the time required for the opponent to no longer lose his dex bonus.&nbsp; However, if that were the case, how could a rogue ever make a sneak attack from concealment into melee?&nbsp; As soon as he acts he is no longer hiding no?&nbsp; Even if you say he is, he would still be under the -20 penalty for making the attack.Even if you have rules counters to everything I have said so far, what about the real world.&nbsp; You have some really heavy fog and two people are fighting each other.&nbsp; Are you telling me that its impossible for one person to sneak up on the other and plant his knife in the guy's jugular?&nbsp; There has to be some plausability to this happening without the defender having a chance to respond.Of course, I use facing from UA which makes this all make a lot more sense.</blockquote>

[QUOTE="Gaiden, post: 1885873, member: 103"] I disagree. What you say would be true if the moving out was not part of the actual attack. When the rogue moves out of concealment, he is making his attack in the form of a grapple touch attack. Between the time he moves out and makes the attack, I presume you are suggesting is the time required for the opponent to no longer lose his dex bonus. However, if that were the case, how could a rogue ever make a sneak attack from concealment into melee? As soon as he acts he is no longer hiding no? Even if you say he is, he would still be under the -20 penalty for making the attack. Even if you have rules counters to everything I have said so far, what about the real world. You have some really heavy fog and two people are fighting each other. Are you telling me that its impossible for one person to sneak up on the other and plant his knife in the guy's jugular? There has to be some plausability to this happening without the defender having a chance to respond. Of course, I use facing from UA which makes this all make a lot more sense. [/QUOTE]

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