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Message: <blockquote data-quote="Radiating Gnome" data-source="post: 1064814" data-attributes="member: 150">Sure, that's true, but does it really matter?  I mean, if the two strikes come one right after the other, is the victim really that much less surprised?  As for UMD, it's good, and useful, but a rogue will have to have invested a lot of skill points in UMD to make that want of Invisibility useful in combat -- A DC 20 to emulate spell ability is no slouch, especially when you factor in that the skill is modified by charisma, (which is probably not one of most rogue's primary abilities, unless it's a social skills rogue, who isn't designed for combat in the first place) and to ONLY have to make that DC 20 roll the rogue would also have to have an INT of 12 (to be able to cast second level spells) or she would have to emulate that as well -- or settle for activating blindly, at a DC of 25.  By the time a rogue is able to make those UMD rolls consistently she'll be high enough level that there will be many other things she could do that would be just as deadly, as would other characters.It's possible to min/max a rogue along these lines, and have a good bonus to your UMD at mid levels, but still -- a 5th level rogue can have 8 ranks in UMD.  A maxed out CHA (unllikely) would provide a +4 bonus.  Add to that a feat (skill focus) for +3 (is that what SF is in 3.5?  I don't remember) and you're looking at +15 to UMD -- which will still fail 25% of the time, and still require an action to try to use the wand, rather than attack.  And how much has the rogue lost in other areas to dedicate herself to this path?  Especially to maximize an ability which is useless against the undead and constructs?Don't get me wrong -- I love rogues, and play rogues most frequently (when I get to play), but I don't think that the UMD + Wand of Invisiblity is the road to disproportionate power for a rogue, by any means.  -rg</blockquote>

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