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Message: <blockquote data-quote="argo" data-source="post: 1732360" data-attributes="member: 5752">The 3.0 DMG had more detailed guidlines about encounter distance than the 3.5 DMG which leaves more details in the hands of the DM.  The basic idea is this.The DM determines the maximum distance at which an encounter could possibly occur.  This is based on the terrain, visibility, line of sight, etc.  There are some guidlines in both the 3 and 3.5 DMG for rolling for a random distance at which to start the encounter.-If a character/npc is already attempting to hide (scouting) and assuming that hiding is possible in the first place (cover/concealment) then he makes his hide/move silent rolls.-If a character/npc is not attempting to hide then the DM determines what the DC will be for spot/listen checks to detect that character.  The 3.0 DMG suggests a base DC of 20 plus size modifiers plus a laundry list of other modifiers.-Both sides make their spot/listen checks with a -1 penalty for each 10ft of distance.-If you make your spot/listen check you become aware of the other side and may act appropriaetly.  If they are very close already this means you start combat with a suprise round.  If they are far away then the DM should track the ammount of time that passes in rounds and adjudicate whatever other action happens normally.-If you fail your spot/listen and the other side is not attempting to hide then you automitaclly become aware of them when you close to within 1/2 the distance at which you first made your awarness rolls (so if the maximum distance to spot them was 120ft and they are not trying to hide then you become aware automatically at 60 ft.).  If your opponent is attempting to hide then he should continue to make hide/move silent checks and you should continue to make spot/listen checks as normal.  Exactly what is "as normal" is left up to the DM but something reasonable might be every time the opponent moves position he makes a new hide check and you oppose with a new spot roll, plus you get a new spot roll at 1/2 encounter distance and at 10 and 5 feet against whatever the opponet's last hide check was, Plus you can use a move-action to make an "active" spot check but your DM may want to know why you are making spot chekcs if your character doesn't know anything is there.  Note: if you fail to spot you not-hiding opponent at max distance and he does spot you his first action may be to hide before you reach 1/2 distance thus meaning you now have to spot against his hide check.-If visibility is really bad and everybody fails their spot checks then the DM may assign a % roll that everybody simply "passes in the night" rather than becomming aware at 1/2 distance.So, to state all this another way: determining awareness is a matter of determining: is a character attempting to actively hide or not?  If he is use his hide roll and if not set a static spot DC.  Is a character attempting to actively spot or not?  If he is give him a spot check every time he asks for it and if not give him one at max-distance.  If a character is unaware of his opponent and his opponent is not hidding he "bumps into" the opponent at 1/2 distance.  If the opponent is hidding he becomes aware of the opponent when he makes a successful spot check or when the opponent reveals himself (perhaps by attacking) so it is possible to walk right past a hidding opponent and not know it.Without knowing anything more about your situation it sounds to me as though the biggest problem you have is that your DM is assigning max-distance as something like 30 or 60 feet.  In the wilderness max-distance ought to be more like 100 or so feet (it depends on the situation).  At that range the -1 per 10 feet penalty should make you really tough to spot and even if you are seen hopefully you saw the opponent as well and have a head start on running back to your party.  A scout should be dividing his rounds between making hide checks (as part of move actions) and making active spot/listen chekcs (as move actions) so even if you miss seeing your opponent at max-distance hopefully you will get one or two more chances thanks to taking it slow and keeping your eyes peeled.  Again this is to give you the chance at a head-start if nothing else.Hope that helps.</blockquote>

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