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Message: <blockquote data-quote="cooperjer" data-source="post: 6957832" data-attributes="member: 6862150">My take on the stealth / hiding of NPCs is that they work together setting up an ambush.  If the NPCs have time to setup and reset their position, i.e. repetitively hiding, then they can use the passive stealth score.  If they have assistance from an ally NPC then they have their passive stealth score at advantage.  In this case the NPCs are playing by the same rules as the PCs.If the NPC makes a significant move in position or the environment changes significantly right before the PCs arrive or while the PCs are in the area then the NPC does not get the passive stealth check.  In this case they must rely on luck a little more, i.e. roll dice, rather than rely on skill and time, i.e passive score.How can PCs with a high passive score be ambushed by a hidden NPC?  Ideally, though not followed in practice in my game, the PCs roll initiative once combat is started.  More clearly, a NPC will have it's bow readied and waiting for a PC to enter an area, i.e a Readied Action.  Once the trigger for that readied action occurs the NPC decides if it is going to perform the action or move.  Once the trigger has occurred then initiative is implemented.  The DM survey's the players for passive perception scores to determine which PC would have been aware / perceived the NPC.  At that point the DM can determine who is surprised or not surprised and who is aware of the NPC and not aware of the NPC.  The readied action will occur at the top of the initiative because it is a readied action with a triggering event.  Play proceeds in initiative order.As I said, this is in theory and does not normally play out as described.  My players have several years of 3.5 play and I have years of various games with a surprise round.  It's hard to remove the idea of a surprise round from the group.</blockquote>

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