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Message: <blockquote data-quote="aliensex" data-source="post: 808236" data-attributes="member: 7917">But what are the bonuses for extreme cover?  Say we have a sniper hiding in some very thick brush waiting by a road for the party to walk by.  He scouts out a perfect spot to snipe from.  He has an opening in some thick brush that he can just peer through and point his crossbow out of while laying prone.  Assuming he has 2 or 3 crossbows loaded and ready (to avoid re-loading noise), what is his hiding DC?  The only think the players could possibly spot to avoid surprise would the tip of the arrow pointing out of some brush.  He pretty much has 99% cover. So, assuming the party travels down the road, and doesn't spot the sniper, he's getting a surprise round to fire off a bolt.  It hits someone (let's say).  Now the party is looking around frantically to find the sniper.  I think you can assume they know which general direction (out of 4 main compass directions) the arrow came from.  But what's the DC?  The sniper hasn't moved, he is completely concealed, switching to his next loaded crossbow.In this situation, I think you can assume he took a 20 to hide (lots of time to find the spot and settle in), plus his hide skill (lets say +10).  So that's a base of 30.  What bonus does massive cover give him?  Since he is completely hidden (essentially 100% cover), something like a +20?  Sounds pretty reasonable I guess (any thoughts?).  So, after firing, the PC's have to Spot his location at a -20.  Since he didn't move, I'd let him just keep is Hide score, so that would be a DC 30 for the PC's to spot him.  That's pretty difficult.I'll assume they don't spot him, and he is able to fire his second crossbow, probably hitting someone else.  Now the party was looking in the area.  I would probably cut the +20 cover bonus in half, so it will become a DC 20 spot check, much easier now, and quite likely someone will spot where the bolt came from.So to sum up, the ability to snipe is all in the cover.  Until they can spot the sniper, I don't think he would actually need to move.  Why bother?  He might as well just move to the same spot (so just stay there), and continue firing.  This is an extreme case, but shows why the crossbow is a deadly sniper weapon.  Using a bow would indeed be much more difficult, requiring the sniper to actually leave his cover at some point to fire, making it harder to hide compared to the prone crossbow firer.</blockquote>

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