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Message: <blockquote data-quote="Guest 6801328" data-source="post: 6844653">Oh, sure; that's fine, too.  The point of my dialog wasn't dependent upon players declaring ability rolls.I wasn't criticizing the puzzle in your example for it's complexity/design...I get that it was a simple example for illustration purposes.  I was just saying that I'm not a fan of the type of puzzle that its a stand-in for.  The one in The Snow Job is well thought-out and integrated with the story, but still in the category that for me screams "mini-game", and I generally dislike leaving the game and playing mini-games.Totally personal preference, and I recognize that I'm in a tiny minority.The "puzzles" I like are the ones that depend on finding/solving another challenge, using regular game rules.  You need to persuade the chamberlain to tell you the password.  You have to convince the witch to make you a Shrinking potion and slide through the arrow slit. You need to find the false book with the key hidden inside.  You need to loot the key from the whatever...etc.The relevance to this thread is that if when the puzzles are overtly "puzzles" in the classic sense, then it's really the players solving them, not the characters.  If you just don't have them, then you don't run into the problem of a player with a low-Int character solving them.</blockquote>