Menu
News
All News
Dungeons & Dragons
Level Up: Advanced 5th Edition
Pathfinder
Starfinder
Warhammer
2d20 System
Year Zero Engine
Industry News
Reviews
Dragon Reflections
White Dwarf Reflections
Columns
Weekly Digests
Weekly News Digest
Freebies, Sales & Bundles
RPG Print News
RPG Crowdfunding News
Game Content
ENterplanetary DimENsions
Mythological Figures
Opinion
Worlds of Design
Peregrine's Nest
RPG Evolution
Other Columns
From the Freelancing Frontline
Monster ENcyclopedia
WotC/TSR Alumni Look Back
4 Hours w/RSD (Ryan Dancey)
The Road to 3E (Jonathan Tweet)
Greenwood's Realms (Ed Greenwood)
Drawmij's TSR (Jim Ward)
Community
Forums & Topics
Forum List
Latest Posts
Forum list
*Dungeons & Dragons
Level Up: Advanced 5th Edition
D&D Older Editions, OSR, & D&D Variants
*TTRPGs General
*Pathfinder & Starfinder
EN Publishing
*Geek Talk & Media
Search forums
Chat/Discord
Resources
Wiki
Pages
Latest activity
Media
New media
New comments
Search media
Downloads
Latest reviews
Search resources
EN Publishing
Store
EN5ider
Adventures in ZEITGEIST
Awfully Cheerful Engine
What's OLD is NEW
Judge Dredd & The Worlds Of 2000AD
War of the Burning Sky
Level Up: Advanced 5E
Events & Releases
Upcoming Events
Private Events
Featured Events
Socials!
EN Publishing
Twitter
BlueSky
Facebook
Instagram
EN World
BlueSky
YouTube
Facebook
Twitter
Twitch
Podcast
Features
Top 5 RPGs Compiled Charts 2004-Present
Adventure Game Industry Market Research Summary (RPGs) V1.0
Ryan Dancey: Acquiring TSR
Q&A With Gary Gygax
D&D Rules FAQs
TSR, WotC, & Paizo: A Comparative History
D&D Pronunciation Guide
Million Dollar TTRPG Kickstarters
Tabletop RPG Podcast Hall of Fame
Eric Noah's Unofficial D&D 3rd Edition News
D&D in the Mainstream
D&D & RPG History
About Morrus
Log in
Register
What's new
Search
Search
Search titles only
By:
Forums & Topics
Forum List
Latest Posts
Forum list
*Dungeons & Dragons
Level Up: Advanced 5th Edition
D&D Older Editions, OSR, & D&D Variants
*TTRPGs General
*Pathfinder & Starfinder
EN Publishing
*Geek Talk & Media
Search forums
Chat/Discord
Menu
Log in
Register
Install the app
Install
NOW LIVE! Today's the day you meet your new best friend. You don’t have to leave Wolfy behind... In 'Pets & Sidekicks' your companions level up with you!
Community
General Tabletop Discussion
*Dungeons & Dragons
So 5th edition is coming soon
JavaScript is disabled. For a better experience, please enable JavaScript in your browser before proceeding.
You are using an out of date browser. It may not display this or other websites correctly.
You should upgrade or use an
alternative browser
.
Reply to thread
Message
<blockquote data-quote="Raven Crowking" data-source="post: 5514293" data-attributes="member: 18280"><p>PERSONAL OPINIONS ONLY and I am only posting in case someone from WotC is reading, and it might make any difference at all. Hence, let me hope against hope and try a mention ([MENTION=697]mearls[/MENTION]).</p><p></p><p>Please do not announce 5e any time soon.</p><p></p><p>I don't play 4e. I don't play 3e anymore, either. But even I can see that you haven't scratched the surface of what 4e could be. What I would like you to do is:</p><p></p><p style="margin-left: 20px">(1) Create options that expand what you can do with the current ruleset. Specifically, options for faster, gridless combat. You've dropped the minis now, so there is no reason not to.</p> <p style="margin-left: 20px"></p> <p style="margin-left: 20px">(2) Stop thinking One Delve Fits All Encounters. That format is the bane of the edition, IMHO, and has kept you from imagining what the system itself could really do. To whit; the biggest problem with the edition, IMHO, is the feeling of artificial constraint, and the largest contributor to that feeling is the Delve.</p> <p style="margin-left: 20px"></p> <p style="margin-left: 20px">Some really cool ideas were being bandied about when you were designing 4e. A return to the Forbidden City of I1, for example. What happened to that? My guess is, it didn't fit the Delve format.</p> <p style="margin-left: 20px"></p> <p style="margin-left: 20px">Really, take a look at any of the best loved modules of earlier editions. Now try to rewrite them into the Delve format, without losing the things that make them great.</p> <p style="margin-left: 20px"></p> <p style="margin-left: 20px">(And if anyone here thinks that is easy, I double-dog-dare you to demonstrate it!)</p> <p style="margin-left: 20px"></p> <p style="margin-left: 20px">(3) An edition lives or dies on the quality of its adventures. Go through your 4e materials, and look at all that great fluff. There is some really great material there. No, I am not joking. I am not a fan, but I know great ideas when I read them.</p> <p style="margin-left: 20px"></p> <p style="margin-left: 20px">Now, take all that fluff, and see what you can do with it outside the Delve format. Make some really kick-ass adventures. You need some adventures that even folks who don't play 4e want to try. You need some adventures that are so good that some folks will try the game just to play in them. <strong><em>IMPORTANT NOTE: A great adventure is one that empowers the players and GM to make their own story out of interactions with the materials presented.</em></strong></p> <p style="margin-left: 20px"></p> <p style="margin-left: 20px">And the first adventure? Make it the most kick-ass of the kick-ass. And make it cheap, even if you have to run a loss. Because the value of buzz is great, my friends. It can work for you, as well as against you.</p><p></p><p>I don't like 4e. I have invested a lot of time and effort in designing a ruleset that serves my specific needs. But you could still draw me in, if you did that. You could still make me want to like 4e. You could still make me give it another try. And, if the adventures really, really rocked, you could turn me around.</p><p></p><p>And, if you could turn me around, well....let's say that there are easier folks out there to turn around.</p><p></p><p>But I think 5e, now, is shooting yourself in the foot. Or the head. IMHO. YMMV. The people who don't like 4e will be saying "Told you so!" and the people who do like 4e will be upset. There's just no winning that way. 5e has to ride a crest of optimism about your design work when it comes. You cannot be your own opposition.</p><p></p><p>Best of luck with whatever you decide.</p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p>RC</p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="Raven Crowking, post: 5514293, member: 18280"] PERSONAL OPINIONS ONLY and I am only posting in case someone from WotC is reading, and it might make any difference at all. Hence, let me hope against hope and try a mention ([MENTION=697]mearls[/MENTION]). Please do not announce 5e any time soon. I don't play 4e. I don't play 3e anymore, either. But even I can see that you haven't scratched the surface of what 4e could be. What I would like you to do is: [indent](1) Create options that expand what you can do with the current ruleset. Specifically, options for faster, gridless combat. You've dropped the minis now, so there is no reason not to. (2) Stop thinking One Delve Fits All Encounters. That format is the bane of the edition, IMHO, and has kept you from imagining what the system itself could really do. To whit; the biggest problem with the edition, IMHO, is the feeling of artificial constraint, and the largest contributor to that feeling is the Delve. Some really cool ideas were being bandied about when you were designing 4e. A return to the Forbidden City of I1, for example. What happened to that? My guess is, it didn't fit the Delve format. Really, take a look at any of the best loved modules of earlier editions. Now try to rewrite them into the Delve format, without losing the things that make them great. (And if anyone here thinks that is easy, I double-dog-dare you to demonstrate it!) (3) An edition lives or dies on the quality of its adventures. Go through your 4e materials, and look at all that great fluff. There is some really great material there. No, I am not joking. I am not a fan, but I know great ideas when I read them. Now, take all that fluff, and see what you can do with it outside the Delve format. Make some really kick-ass adventures. You need some adventures that even folks who don't play 4e want to try. You need some adventures that are so good that some folks will try the game just to play in them. [B][I]IMPORTANT NOTE: A great adventure is one that empowers the players and GM to make their own story out of interactions with the materials presented.[/I][/B] And the first adventure? Make it the most kick-ass of the kick-ass. And make it cheap, even if you have to run a loss. Because the value of buzz is great, my friends. It can work for you, as well as against you.[/indent] I don't like 4e. I have invested a lot of time and effort in designing a ruleset that serves my specific needs. But you could still draw me in, if you did that. You could still make me want to like 4e. You could still make me give it another try. And, if the adventures really, really rocked, you could turn me around. And, if you could turn me around, well....let's say that there are easier folks out there to turn around. But I think 5e, now, is shooting yourself in the foot. Or the head. IMHO. YMMV. The people who don't like 4e will be saying "Told you so!" and the people who do like 4e will be upset. There's just no winning that way. 5e has to ride a crest of optimism about your design work when it comes. You cannot be your own opposition. Best of luck with whatever you decide. RC [/QUOTE]
Insert quotes…
Verification
Post reply
Community
General Tabletop Discussion
*Dungeons & Dragons
So 5th edition is coming soon
Top