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Message: <blockquote data-quote="KarinsDad" data-source="post: 5516051" data-attributes="member: 2011">You mean no powers like "Wings of Devilry"? Sure, it's a Ranger martial power for a specific Paragon Path, but still martial.Well, multiclassing is often used as power source delving.There are very few martial PCs (and other PCs for that matter) that I have ever seen played to mid-Paragon that don't eventually multiclass to acquire some type of magical ability. And, Paragon Path / Epic Destinies (of other classes even) can be used for this as well.Like I said, there are limitations, but there are also some pretty easy ways to bypass those limitations.It's not a perception for healing.Blinding Barrage, Come and Get It, Strong-Arm Loyalty, Crippling Smash. There are literally hundreds of such powers.It's not every power, but they do exist. In fact, depending on which condition one is talking about, there are sometimes a lot of martial powers that throw out the condition. And even Sliding or Pushing is a type of control. I'm more ok with martial classes pushing than sliding or pulling.Personally, I think the concept of Adventurers making, having, and using a bunch of healing potions is not cheesy at all.I think it's cool. I'm kind of bummed that they mostly did away with it (due to the mostly worthlessness of healing potions and the vast proliferation of healing in the game).Wand of Healing? I agree.Potions of Healing? I think they make great finds in treasure troves. I think they would make great combat tactical options for NPCs (hence the reason PCs would find them in NPC lairs).I personally think that the game was watered down in this area because the bang for the buck (healing surge to gain little healing) is so small.Great? Meh.It's would be just as great for the PC to pull out a healing potion (if healing potions actually worked well).The penalty is so large in the minds of many players that it's a wart on the system. And the healing is so weak (compared to powers) that players often think it is better to take their chances.I do have my PCs use Second Wind now and then, but I have noticed that I used to use it a lot more often when the game first came out. Now with the plethora of bonuses that Leaders have to healing and the vast number of ways to get temporary hit points? Meh. I'd almost rather go unconscious and save a healing surge. The fact that the game has morphed to this point makes Second Wind even more meh now than it was previously.25 hit points and a save feels magical? Compared to what? Most healing powers that occur every encounter? A Potion of Vitality also cannot really be used when Dazed (without multiple rounds) or Stunned.And a Potion of Vigor is a joke with the exception of the super rare encounter where the players know it will be tough, so they suck down these potions pre-combat.The entire design of the vast majority of potions and consumable items is pretty weak overall.They should have made consumable items worthwhile and players would then use some of their hard earned cash to buy/craft them. As is, we rarely see consumables in our games and that's pretty much a shame.</blockquote>

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