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Message: <blockquote data-quote="AbdulAlhazred" data-source="post: 5516995" data-attributes="member: 82106">All of which are MUCH more limited than any kind of healing your leader will provide. Look at Red Leeches of Nihal since you seem to like it... The power requires a standard action and occupies a daily slot to provide a bare HS worth of personal healing. The temp nature of the healing aside, it is a terrible power. Fighters have some similar powers, one of which actually allows to heal another PC, but again this is a bare HS worth of healing and requires a standard action. It is to put it bluntly a basically worthless power. Except pretty much invariably they require standard actions, take up slots better used for other things, etc. You're not going to get anything but the very most basic healing without being a leader and frankly it is almost never actually worth using 95% of these powers. It is really not roll bleed over at all. Any 4e PC has Second Wind already. Most of the powers you can use which provide some form of healing are considerably WORSE than Second Wind. I hardly think this is stepping on the toes of the leader. And yet all the literature, myth, and other types of fiction from which D&D principally draws is rife with 'martial' heroes doing exactly these things. I find it to be entirely appropriate and 4e is vastly better at portraying these things than other editions have been (in 3.x there were options, but the costs were high or they required rather elaborate class poaching etc). I'm sorry, but your notion of some kind of divide between different types of 'magical' and 'non-magical' heroes simply doesn't hold up against the source material, nor do most players IME wish to be permanently consigned to "I hit it harder" just because they want to use a sword.First of all, there's no hard and fast limitation of 4 encounters per day. This is entirely within the control of the DM. You want more encounters? Make them a bit weaker. You want restoration of daily resources, there are all kinds of options. DMG2 most certainly talks about possibilities like a 'fountain of healing' or whatnot. Artifacts are a totally blank slate, you can do ANYTHING with them. Make one up! What is WRONG with people these days that they can't simply drop what they want into their game? These things aren't covered in the PLAYER CHARACTER rules because they are simply not things that the players are supposed to be building around. They CAN get them, but that acquisition is strictly in the purview of the DM, where it really should be.Honestly, where in AD&D were these kinds of things? I haven't read much of 3.x stuff, so I won't comment on that, but this kind of thing was ENTIRELY a DM resource in AD&D. I don't understand what you're complaining about. BOOM is "here's the DM's responsibility", so STEP UP!!!!Exactly, it doesn't happen often in 4e BY DESIGN because they actually looked at the rules and the sources for the game and said "gosh, this doesn't fit in well with the genre" and reduced its importance in the game. Until the PC exhausts his reserves, yes. Honestly, go back to the source material again. It is REPLETE with heroes getting back up and going on with nothing but grit. Heck, REAL LIFE is replete with these kinds of stories. Sorry, I don't even consider this kind of thing terribly unrealistic within the basic context of the game and its abstractions. It certainly fits in quite well with the action adventure genre.Except of course that hit points are abstract, so that is a rather dubious interpretation to start with. Secondly I see wounded heroes going on with nary a wince all over the place. Bruce Willis and Jackie Chan run around with bandages in practically every movie either of them ever made. Slap a bandage on it when you get a chance and off you go, good as new. Yeah, we'll never agree. The last thing on earth I want to see is the return to the days where if you picked up a sword you were instantly turned into a second-rate lackey. 4e is far more true to its source material and fantasy tradition IMHO than any previous edition. I think they did a rather brilliant job of this actually. It is a magical fantasy world, magic is part of everything, and the personal 'magic' of the bad-assed sword wielding warrior is a welcome and LONG overdue addition to the game. All I can really say is some 5e retro game where we have to go back to the old days because hey Gygax didn't do it the 4e way is NOT something I'd touch with a 10' pole. I'd be OK with some way of organizing the rules so that there ARE a set of plausible mundane mechanics that can provide a core set that you can access easily. Forcing players to be limited to nothing but that simply because they picked the 'wrong' character concept is completely uninteresting to me.</blockquote>

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