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So, about defenses aka. PHB2 defenses feats
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<blockquote data-quote="James McMurray" data-source="post: 4743962" data-attributes="member: 743"><p>Definitely, unless you go to pains to make it not be that way. Minions (plus a house rule to make them usable at epic) help.</p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p>15 or 20.</p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p>A couple, three if it gets really bad (weakness, insubstantial, lots of action denial).</p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p>These actually seemed to go faster, but I tend to use a single solo and either an elite or a few normal monsters in these. When the epic PCs can focus their attention, things die quickly. This is in part due to the debilitating effects they themselves can lay down.</p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p>Yeah.</p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p>Depends on the campaign, but in a generic dungeon crawl one definitely. In our game they tended to still either finish out an entire area in one day, or have just one encounter that day because of plot reasons.</p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p>Possibly. This depends a lot on the encounters. If the monsters don't stun or dominate, then no. If they do, then probably (though only if the bonus is high enough to make for a noticable difference). If the bonus bumps the defense up to where the monsters start having a hard time hitting, it could actually increase the feel of grinding. But I tend to feel like I'm grinding when I have a bunch of fights against things that can't hurt me just as much as I feel it when battle take a long time.</p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p>Possibly, though most of the resources that get used in normal encounters are encounter powers, and epic characters have a lot of ways to get powers back. A long and grinding fight is only a little more likely to make you want to burn a daily, and that's as likely to be caused by boredom overcoming tactics. It's "I'll kill him in 15 rounds if I use encounter powers" vs. "I'll kill him in 12 rounds if I toss in dailies."</p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p>I don't think increasing PC to hit makes fights too easy. I think it's a necessary part of getting rid of grind.</p><p></p><p>IMO the key is fixing the true problems. Monsters that hit aren't a big deal. Losing turns, or having your turns forced on you are the problems. To me, fixing stun and domination is a much better solution than adding bonuses that open the door to power gamed PCs with defenses that are through the roof.</p><p></p><p>As an example from our campaign, we had a fighter. He was a Demigod, had tons of ways to heal himself, reach, and a really high AC. No matter what monsters were tossed his way, their low damage meant he had nothing to fear. Until they started using stun, domination, or weakness + insubstantial to negate his turns. Even then the fear didn't come from the character fearing death, it came from the player fearing boredom.</p><p></p><p>If I had to guess I'd say they usually hit him on a 5+, though once when he was ~23rd he fought some 17th level creatures that hit his will on a 2+. Adding +4 would have helped, but with combat advantage and other bonuses, it wouldn't have helped much. He still would have been highly prone to losing turns whenever the monsters targetted him (which because of his marks was pretty often).</p><p></p><p>If instead a change were made to the boring things that scared the player, and the monsters' damage was bumped so that he feared for his character's life rather than his own entertainment, I think the grind would have almost disappeared.</p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p>Sorry, I didn't see the example. It was before I joined the thread. Did getting hit easily suck because the character could be easily killed, or because the player could be easily bored?</p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p>I do that too.</p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="James McMurray, post: 4743962, member: 743"] Definitely, unless you go to pains to make it not be that way. Minions (plus a house rule to make them usable at epic) help. 15 or 20. A couple, three if it gets really bad (weakness, insubstantial, lots of action denial). These actually seemed to go faster, but I tend to use a single solo and either an elite or a few normal monsters in these. When the epic PCs can focus their attention, things die quickly. This is in part due to the debilitating effects they themselves can lay down. Yeah. Depends on the campaign, but in a generic dungeon crawl one definitely. In our game they tended to still either finish out an entire area in one day, or have just one encounter that day because of plot reasons. Possibly. This depends a lot on the encounters. If the monsters don't stun or dominate, then no. If they do, then probably (though only if the bonus is high enough to make for a noticable difference). If the bonus bumps the defense up to where the monsters start having a hard time hitting, it could actually increase the feel of grinding. But I tend to feel like I'm grinding when I have a bunch of fights against things that can't hurt me just as much as I feel it when battle take a long time. Possibly, though most of the resources that get used in normal encounters are encounter powers, and epic characters have a lot of ways to get powers back. A long and grinding fight is only a little more likely to make you want to burn a daily, and that's as likely to be caused by boredom overcoming tactics. It's "I'll kill him in 15 rounds if I use encounter powers" vs. "I'll kill him in 12 rounds if I toss in dailies." I don't think increasing PC to hit makes fights too easy. I think it's a necessary part of getting rid of grind. IMO the key is fixing the true problems. Monsters that hit aren't a big deal. Losing turns, or having your turns forced on you are the problems. To me, fixing stun and domination is a much better solution than adding bonuses that open the door to power gamed PCs with defenses that are through the roof. As an example from our campaign, we had a fighter. He was a Demigod, had tons of ways to heal himself, reach, and a really high AC. No matter what monsters were tossed his way, their low damage meant he had nothing to fear. Until they started using stun, domination, or weakness + insubstantial to negate his turns. Even then the fear didn't come from the character fearing death, it came from the player fearing boredom. If I had to guess I'd say they usually hit him on a 5+, though once when he was ~23rd he fought some 17th level creatures that hit his will on a 2+. Adding +4 would have helped, but with combat advantage and other bonuses, it wouldn't have helped much. He still would have been highly prone to losing turns whenever the monsters targetted him (which because of his marks was pretty often). If instead a change were made to the boring things that scared the player, and the monsters' damage was bumped so that he feared for his character's life rather than his own entertainment, I think the grind would have almost disappeared. Sorry, I didn't see the example. It was before I joined the thread. Did getting hit easily suck because the character could be easily killed, or because the player could be easily bored? I do that too. [/QUOTE]
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