NOW LIVE! Today's the day you meet your new best friend. You don’t have to leave Wolfy behind... In 'Pets & Sidekicks' your companions level up with you!

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Message: <blockquote data-quote="Elric" data-source="post: 4744319" data-attributes="member: 1139">I agree.  My point is that "using feats to fix the game's math problems, if it has math problems, is a bad idea; so WotC wouldn't do it, which means that the existence of these feats doesn’t indicate that WotC believes there to be math problems" isn't a good argument in light of Expertise.  In light of Expertise, the untyped bonuses on Epic FRW indicate another "math fix."This is a major exaggeration.  Characters lose 2 over 29 levels vs. AC and an average of 5 over 29 levels vs. FRW (some of which doesn't matter, as you point out, because the monster already hits on a 2 and then gains further still).  So if it started at 9 out of 10 and FRW scaled as well as AC does, then it would be 7.5 out of 10 for the subset of attacks that target FRW.I was trying to rule out the case where if you take Epic FRW for your weak defense, it doesn't make as much of a difference because before taking it you would have been hit on a 1 but for the auto-miss rule (edit: I see the problem: I said "matter" when I meant "matter in full").  I do think that with Robust Defenses, your weakest FRW generally won’t be so weak that you’d typically get hit on a 1 but for the auto-miss rule (at which point boosting it via Epic FRW is worth almost the full +4 value).  So, you'd agree that a +4 bonus, when it applies to your stronger FRWs, which were not being hit on a 2 prior to taking said Epic FRW feat, is too large?I thought you were arguing that an HR fix for FRW would make the game too easy, even if that fix included getting rid of the PH II feats.  I used this comparison to show that the game isn't necessarily getting any easier with a house rules fix than it is by including the PH II feats.  But I might have misunderstood; are you saying that the existence of a fix to FRW, either in the form of house rules or these PH II Feats, makes the game too easy, but it isn’t going to help your weakest FRW because it will be best to take these feats to help out your strong FRWs, as the weakest one is a lost cause?Well, if you think of the PH items as a baseline, then the AV items that have constantly active abilities shouldn't be greatly superior to PH items (unless you think the PH items were significantly underpowered).  For example, the Shadow Band in AV is a constant defensive buff item, and it's too powerful.  The game's math should not be balanced around having items of that power level.  I’m inclined to say that the plethora of AV items granting static (and often untyped!) FRW bonuses are also poor design (and may also be intended as math fixes).</blockquote>

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