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Message: <blockquote data-quote="Bayuer" data-source="post: 4745417" data-attributes="member: 61817">With two leaders in team I no wonder you couldn't make to much threat to you players. They have strong backup. They could go easily on epic. So if you're saying that your experience on epic is based on this teams, you can have you rights here, but that doesn't mean that everybody plays wit 2 leaders in party...I you have only one leader or no leader at, all things get more dangerous. Playing without leader on epic could be in fact very deadly.That's true in some manner, but when you compare Epic FRW to any other feat that gives NADs bonuses, you can easily see that this bonus is huge. Making it no named bonus makes this feat more powerful. Look at Expertise. You agree that hitting chances are too low on Epic, and Expertise fix this. Using analogy, you can be pretty sure that Epic FRW are the same fix. Until Expertise we didn't have such a strong to hit feats.And that's why this feats are broken. They should be incorporated to rules and the players will not have such a feelings. Anyway you will probably not end in situation where your lowest NAD is so weak, the it will be hitted on 2,3 on die, even with Epic FRW feat. In the worst case it will be 4 on die, but anyway that just prooves that there is something wrong with this feats and the math itself, just becouse such a situatuin is allowed in game.[qupte=KarinsDad]If you want to add some math to your POV to counter the known math flaws, you have to do some work instead of just making the claim without anything to back it up.</blockquote>+1. It is easy to say, your calculations are wrong becouse you didn't include some factors. I asked James many times, what impact on game have tactic, positioning and still didn't see the answer. The true is that even if Drako will give us a 6 utility powers of his leader, that can give saves, the monsters target NADs more offten on epic. You can have simple analogy. On heroic monster don't target NADs offten, you have not many powers granting saves. On epic you have more powers granting saves, becouse monsters target NADs more often.I think, and this is my statemant, that when PCs power grows, the same thing happen to monsters strength. And the strength of monsters is: more offten NADs targeting, more HP so they can stand longer in fight. PCs gain more power to. Feats, paragon paths, magic items, epic destinies and powers. But even then they can't have at-will stunn power. This is reserved to monsters, so they can be more challanging. And I think that this scales good. Monster have auras, give penalties, monster leaders buff monsters (I wonder why anyone mentioned about this) etc. So the monsters are stronger enought without +2 hit vs. NAD. PCs resources aren't endless and sooner or later even well prepared party will kneel in front of NADs hitting monsters. And if you say that hitting the monsters is too low (and Expertise is solution), you also must understand that having Robust Defenses and Epic FRW feats, isn't there for powergamers.[/QUOTE]

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