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Message: <blockquote data-quote="Bayuer" data-source="post: 4745692" data-attributes="member: 61817">@JhaelenAt first the werall tactic thing is important in game, but it's not THAT important. Of course in this fight, players will have adventage, becouse it's fight 5 on 1. But when you take 5 on 5 fight things will change. I understand importance of tactic in play, but don't forget monster use tactic to. You take example from MM, fine.But this is just one example. Example that favors PCs, couse solos aren't that threat as they should be. But this is another topic.But this will we 29 lvl wher the gap is higher.Ok. All players got +2 to all defs.That's is true. But even this +2 to all stats don't change much.FORT hitted on 8 (+2 monster adventage).REF hitted on 5 (+5 monster adventage).WILL hitted on 3 (+7 monster adventage).And this is right. Some characters will have weak REF some FOR. Example of fighter was just for simplification.Now player that is hitted on 3 on die in FOR (5 with mark) will take more damage. The same for REF player. And there is realy big chance to have 3 weak FOR etc. You can't tell exacly who will have what, there are too many variations in classes/races, but definitly there will be some characters that will be hitted on 3 (with Hollowe Ground) (5 with mark). And this what you and me was talking about. You didn't discover America, sorry.So that means you are right, and I'm wrong. <img src="https://cdn.jsdelivr.net/joypixels/assets/8.0/png/unicode/64/1f642.png" class="smilie smilie--emoji" loading="lazy" width="64" height="64" alt=":)" title="Smile    :)"  data-smilie="1"data-shortname=":)" />What if I will say take me 24 or 26 artillery. I was talking about any late epic artillery. But if we are going to argue about such a small things, this discussion will not give us anything good.Numbers can vary but +1/-1 dosen't change anything. This is simple flawe issue or just fact of multiattack of Naga. We are talking about average so there is all ok if some numbers are +1/-1 diffrent.Fighter will probably defend weakest characters don't charge onto artillery, becouse monster first line will crush players second line. Experienced DM will use inteligent monsters as best as he can, so that dosen't change anything.Ok, so give all PHB powers that bost NADs. Let's get some facts.Hollowed Ground is 16 lvl utility daily power. Power on level where the NADs don't have big gap. So look at this level if we are saying anything about this (and other) power impact on game. Saying that this is still good power at 25 lvl is bad, becouse at this level we should have powers that gives us better bonus to defs, if your theory is right. Look at powers in PHB and show to us, that you have right. Giving one example at lower level dosen't prove anything. +2 on heroic and +2 on epic as you can see don't have the same value. And I and many people was thinking that it have, becouse the math is fair.Only leaders will have powers that will give huge bonuses. Some classes like Swordmage, have powers that boost their NADs, but are there so many of them.Two questions:1. So you are saying that I need leader to play on epic? Only them have good powers that can boost PCs.2. You are saying that if I want to be good at epic I need to take any NADs related power?If both answers are yes, and your arguments goint into that way, I must say. This is even worst than feat tax.Call down. The solo, elitte and normal monster have the same to hit chance based on it's role and level. Don't get to flawed here. If I will place 5 monster hitting NADs, all of them will have to hit chances based on they rolle. And don't forget that even if players fighting solo, that dosen't mean that there will be no other monsters in fight. Even disgners says that solo doesen mean that this will be only monster against PCs. Anyway making such a fights isn't smart thing to do. Experiences DM knows that. Solos alone aren't so threatening.Aren't you the one who says that average calculations aren't too good? <img src="https://cdn.jsdelivr.net/joypixels/assets/8.0/png/unicode/64/1f642.png" class="smilie smilie--emoji" loading="lazy" width="64" height="64" alt=":)" title="Smile    :)"  data-smilie="1"data-shortname=":)" /> This is luck factor. But this strong attack that all PCs.This is false statement. You can't compare PCs average damage to monster average damage! This are two diffrent things.Avenger isn't good at damage dealing. Look on the forums, there are better strikers than him. And striker isn't always about dmg, it's about hitting too. Look on wizards forums. Anyway, this is off-topic.And again. Solo, elitte and normal monster have the same chance to hit based on they level and role.Balance is the last thing that I will search in this statement.LOL. You joking right? Ok just normal to flameskull to hit chance. The PCs NADs on 24 level are the same as on 25lvl. So:+27 vs. 36 - hit on 9 on die (+1 monster adventage)+27 vs. 33 - hit on 6 on die (+4 monster adventage)+27 vs. 29 - hit on 2 on die (+8 monster adventage)This is single monster. Add 4 more and we can have more fun. Add 4 more and we can have hard fight. Now this will be fair fight don't you think? Stunn/dominated/weaken/restrain/ongoing damage. All easily placed by monsters...About undead type. Withou divine character (cleric, avenger) nothing will change... This is small factor to be considered seriously. Or you're saying the cleric is the only leader woth taking. <img src="https://cdn.jsdelivr.net/joypixels/assets/8.0/png/unicode/64/1f642.png" class="smilie smilie--emoji" loading="lazy" width="64" height="64" alt=":)" title="Smile    :)"  data-smilie="1"data-shortname=":)" />//Sorry for my english. I didn't have time to look at post again, and as I said before. It's not my primary language.</blockquote>

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