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Message: <blockquote data-quote="Bayuer" data-source="post: 4757127" data-attributes="member: 61817">Too many jokes and insults... Ok.I opened DMG, looked at the guidlines how to make monsters. Even babe can sit here and look at the numbers and tell that Skirmisher stats are in medium range of all stats...Attack vs. AC (Skirmisher: Level + 5  Brute: Level + 3  Soldier: Level + 7  Lurker: Level + 5  Controller: Level + 5  Artillery: Level + 7). So as you can see the range is from 3 to 7. That's why 5 is correct number to calculate the average to hit bonuses vs. AC for all monsters. This number can vary but they will never be lower than level +3 and higher than level +7. Let's look at... well 21 lvl monsters from MM. Compared to DMG average numbers should look like this:Skirmisher +26 vs. AC; Brute +24 vs. AC, Soldier +28 vs. AC; Lurker +26 vs. AC, Controller +26 vs. AC and Artillery +26 vs. ACHer's what MM states:Ghaele of Winter (Artillery) +25 vs. AC (-1 from average)Larva Mage (Ellite Artillery) +26 vs. ACGiant Mummy (Brute) +24 vs. ACDark Naga (Elite Controller) +24 vs. AC (-2 from average)Deathpriest Hierophant (Elite Controller) +24 vs. AC (-2 from average)Tormenting Ghost (have no vs. AC attacks)Angel of Valor Legionnaire (Minion) - +26 vs. ACLegion Devil Legionnaire (Minion) +26 vs. ACWild Hunt Hound (Skirmisher) +26 vs. ACYuan-Ti Anathema (Elite Skirmisher) +26 vs. ACFire Titan (Elite Soldier) +26 vs. AC (-2 from average)Marut Blademaster (Soldier) +27 vs. AC (-1 from average)As you can see my average math works just fine when I say that most common attack bonus of 21 lvl monsters vs. AC is +26! Ok I will just make you a favor and count the NADs attacks the same way for you.From DMG this are the average numbers:Attack vs. other defenses (Skirmisher: Level + 3  Brute: Level + 1  Soldier: Level + 5  Lurker: Level + 3  Controller: Level + 4  Artillery: Level + 5). We take our example on 21 lvl and this is what the average stats should look like:Skirmisher +24 vs. AC; Brute +22 vs. AC, Soldier +26 vs. AC; Lurker +24 vs. AC, Controller +25 vs. AC and Artillery +26 vs. ACHer's what MM states:Ghaele of Winter (Artillery) +25 vs. REF (+1 from average) +23 vs. WILL (close burst; +1 from average)Larva Mage (Ellite Artillery) +24 vs. WILL (-2 from average) +24 vs. FOR (-2 from average) +26 vs. WILL +24 vs. REF (area attack)Giant Mummy (Brute) +22 vs. FOR (close burst; +2 from average)Dark Naga (Elite Controller) +25 vs. WILL (close burst; +2 from average) +26 vs. WILL (close burst; +3 from average)Deathpriest Hierophant (Elite Controller) +24 vs. WILL (-1 from average) +24 vs. FOR (close burst; +1 from average)Tormenting Ghost (Controller) +24 vs. REF (-1 from average) +24 vs. WILL (-1 from average) +24 vs. WILL (close burst; +1 from average)Angel of Valor Legionnaire (Minion) (no NADs attacks)Legion Devil Legionnaire (Minion) (no NADs attacks)Wild Hunt Hound (Skirmisher) (no NADs attacks)Yuan-Ti Anathema (Elite Skirmisher) +24 vs. REF (multiattack power; +2 from average) +26 vs. FOR (close burst; +4 from average) Fire Titan (Elite Soldier) +24 vs. REF (-2 from average) +24 vs. REF (close burst)Marut Blademaster (no NAD attacks)As you can see my simple math works again. I stated that +24 will be average NAD bonus to attack at this level and... suprisely it is true!I just found the Ghaele of Winter attack. I will post it here for you:I hope that will be final answer that hitting on 2 wasn't intended. We already have autohit powers! And don't forget about auras that are nasty and make monsters more threatening! Creating zones by monsters is a fact to.Actually I made some characters to see how my math works. I will post them again:Big smile again. I will ask it very polite... If NADs attacks vs. PCs DEF have better chances to hit than AC attacks, do the same amount of damage and offten place nasty effects on PCs this is too simple evidence to you, to be true. Come on. We are not a babies here. If you want talk about complexity ok.Cover/Concealment -2 to PCs and monsters to attack.Superior Cove/Total Concealment -5 to attack for PCs and monsters to.Combat adventage the same. Monsters can get it more offten becouse of nasty effects.Tactics? Well, PCs will do they best. Why not monsters? They make ambushes, use terrain for they adventage etc.Powers. Most powers that give bonuses to defenses gives bonuses to AC only... There are very few powers that give bonuses to NADs! Attack penalty powers and giving to hit bonuses powers are incorporeted to special builds and avalible from 1 lvl of play, so this is obvious they have the same impact on game thrue all 30 lvls. Do you want to add something to this? If so make it more clear to me, what complexity I forget in my simple calculatons. You see... If powers will have such a big impact to the math on epic play, we will not have them avalible at lvl 1, but on paragon or epic! Why swordmage have power that give him his warding to other NADs on heroic? Why we have rightous brand at-will of STR cleric that can give +4/+5 to melee hit at first level (and +8 at late epic)? why is  Distrupting Strike on heroic? You see this is why I ignore to powers impact, becouse they have the same impact on heroic like on epic!Please don't be sarcastic. Maybe they will need you as a public relationship guy...Anyway. There are threads like "Can a player get to many healings" "Solos not threating" "Grind" etc. I didn't take those assumptions from... vacum <img src="https://cdn.jsdelivr.net/joypixels/assets/8.0/png/unicode/64/1f642.png" class="smilie smilie--emoji" loading="lazy" width="64" height="64" alt=":)" title="Smile    :)"  data-smilie="1"data-shortname=":)" /> Yeah, it's definitly my new favorite word.And if we have a discussion here why you don't answer to my arguments? You simply can't or what?Maybe it's time to sumarize, why I think math is broken:1)Average math shows that your NAds, AC and to hit chance is lower than on epic. The gap is huge for NADs specialy.2)The attacks vs. AC compared to NADs attacks do the same damage, but NADs attack place nasty effects and have very, very easier time to hit than AC attacks.3)The PHB2 feats came out and they fix the gap my math showed to me. To be realy precize I think paragon +2 feats are alos feat fixes (or at least must have feats).4)Fight on epic becouse of this math gaps make game longer and grindy.5)Hitting on 2-5 isn't fun at all! Hitting in response on 15+ too. As KarinsDad said I don't think that this is sweet spot designers were talking about.6)I saw too many errated thing that should work from beginning. a) The first example are Skill Challanges that even after errata are so bad... I don't know who do the math there, but he just made so many mistakes. b)Adventurers Vault masterwork armors.7)The autohit powers already exist! There are auras too and zones in the game. We got plenty of autohit powers already.</blockquote>

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