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<blockquote data-quote="keterys" data-source="post: 4700580" data-attributes="member: 43019">As the resistance makes their damage without Astral Fire approach 0, the feat definitely becomes less useful - though the status effects still trigger on hits, so you're comparing doing, say, 5 damage instead of 3 when you do hit, to say dazing more often... and the status effect might still win. That said, if they encounter resistance with such frequency as to make Astral Fire more useful than Implement Expertise, they should not be using such attacks at all (or possibly their DM has it out to get them and the DM should rejigger things)4e is remarkably good at not having people just suck because of build options, it's true. You could indeed have a rogue whose feats are entirely spent on weapon proficiencies in weapons he didn't use and compare to one who had weapon expertise, weapon focus, backstabber, etc... and the differences would be notable but not game breaking. I'm not sure I'd consider the first build to be &quot;viable&quot; just because it was still hitting pretty often and doing decent damage, even if it were... let's call it half as effective. I mean, half a rogue is still nice to have around.Could you clarify your definition of must have? For example, I'm not sure I could make a list of more than 2 feats per race/class/build for level 16 that were higher priority. I consider that must have. If the definition for must have is more like 'You gain an extra standard action every round' or 'Your basic attacks that cause damage also stun (save ends)', that would explain the disagreement.</blockquote>

[QUOTE="keterys, post: 4700580, member: 43019"] As the resistance makes their damage without Astral Fire approach 0, the feat definitely becomes less useful - though the status effects still trigger on hits, so you're comparing doing, say, 5 damage instead of 3 when you do hit, to say dazing more often... and the status effect might still win. That said, if they encounter resistance with such frequency as to make Astral Fire more useful than Implement Expertise, they should not be using such attacks at all (or possibly their DM has it out to get them and the DM should rejigger things) 4e is remarkably good at not having people just suck because of build options, it's true. You could indeed have a rogue whose feats are entirely spent on weapon proficiencies in weapons he didn't use and compare to one who had weapon expertise, weapon focus, backstabber, etc... and the differences would be notable but not game breaking. I'm not sure I'd consider the first build to be "viable" just because it was still hitting pretty often and doing decent damage, even if it were... let's call it half as effective. I mean, half a rogue is still nice to have around. Could you clarify your definition of must have? For example, I'm not sure I could make a list of more than 2 feats per race/class/build for level 16 that were higher priority. I consider that must have. If the definition for must have is more like 'You gain an extra standard action every round' or 'Your basic attacks that cause damage also stun (save ends)', that would explain the disagreement. [/QUOTE]

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