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Message: <blockquote data-quote="grickherder" data-source="post: 4702970" data-attributes="member: 68043">In your use of "feat sink" you're demonstrating certain priorities again (specifically of the power gamer variety).  By what criteria do we consider spending so many feats on multiclassing to be a "feat sink"?  That one can get more combat potency out of not spending those feats and taking a paragon path?  That there are better choices if one's goal to combat potency?  Such criteria are meaningless for those who are not prioritizing power gaming or min-maxing to the degree you are.  If my goal is to make a truly multiclass warlock/wizard gnome then it's not a feat sink at all, but feats spent to get the effect I want.  For someone who emphasizes powergaming less, spending all these feats on combat potency can be called a feat sink.That actually supports what I'm saying rather than being a "problem with that theory."  See below: However you might rank your various motivations in terms of their importance to you, the power gaming one is sufficiently high to motivating factor when assessing Expertise.  If it was lower, you might be willing to pass up the +1, but you're not.  You're assuming that the mix of motivations that players have automatically places power gaming high on the priority list.  It doesn't have to be that way. Is this really the case though?  Perhaps after level 25, but a +1 to hit through level 14 isn't exactly the difference between hitting 50% of the time and 35-40% of the time. I'm not convinced it's better than all the alternative feats.  For example, a 1st level wizard might be better off with leather armour proficiency.  Expertise is certainly good (especially at 15th and 25th level), but I'm just not buying this "it's better than all the other combat feats" idea.  At level 1, there are other better feats when it comes to improving combat ability.  However, Expertise certainly becomes attractive once someone works through their short list of other stuff (Action Surge, DWT, Eladrin Soldier, Toughness, superior weapon proficiencies, melee training, lethal hunter, improved warlock curse feats, backstabber, and many others depending on the race/class combo).At level 15, it becomes very attractive though.  And at 25, even more so.  I don't think that something you'll probably want to include by half way through the advancement cycle is somehow a "must have" though.  I don't think that qualifies it as better than all the other combat related feats. If you're going to make an analogous feat to weapon/implement expertise, why not actually make it analogous?  +1, +2 at 15th and +3 at 25th? If that was the case, I could see myself taking it at around 15th or 25th just like with weapon/implement expertise.  And subsequently, I don't consider something I get half way through the character's advancement cycle to be somehow better than all other non-combat feats.Jhaelen really made a good point above:Yes!  Absolutely.  It allows those who want to make a MAD build more viable in combat.  It allows more race/class combinations to be effective in combat.  It allows the players to compensate for DMs who pack their encounters with monsters of higher level than the party.While I may rank power gaming lower in terms of my own priorities, I can appreciate the good that a feat like Weapon/Implement Expertise does for those who rank it more highly.  Especially those who would like to be able to make a sub-optimal build work in combat.  It seems to only be a problem feat for those who see a +1 to hit as being so important they have no choice but to take it.My first 4e character was a half-elf cleric with no stat higher than a 15.  But now I can spend a feat and get a +1 to hit.  Maybe some of the 15 attack stat builds I had considered in the past are more viable after all.Allows a greater number of class/race combinations to be viable?  Yep.Allows those who feel they are not hitting enough to get a bonus?  Yep.Allows one to compensate for a sub optimal build so you can prioritize things other than power gaming builds?  Yep.I certainly see a lot of good about this feat.</blockquote>

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