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Message: <blockquote data-quote="grickherder" data-source="post: 4704200" data-attributes="member: 68043">This is so less of an issue in 4th edition than it is in previous editions.  In 4e you design encounters for the group.  Even if one guy totally optimized, has a single attack stat build with a 18-20 (at level 1) and took expertise, and another person made a crappy character, the DM can concentrate on challenging the party and it'll work for everyone.  3.x definitely had some problems where one character could be so amazing and another so terrible that you couldn't challenge one withou killing the others.  With the advent of roles and the inability for a party to function as a bunch of individuals who don't work together, 4e has pretty much solved this problem.Problem?  It's a +1!  Let's take a typical rogue.  We'll say 18 dex, using a dagger.  That's +8 to hit at level 1.  What does it matter if it's +9?  What does it break?  Let's compare that to a sub-optimal guy with 14 in his primary attack stat.  With expertise and a +3 weapon, that's  a +6 to hit at level 1.  +7 if it's a dagger wielding rogue or a weapon talent fighter.  People are more than happy with a +6 to hit at level 1 right now.  This feat becomes available and suddenly it's bad?  Or becomes worse because the rogue goes up to a +9 or +10?This idea of not being able to challenge an optimized character without overwhelming an unoptimized one is outmoded thinking.PHB2 isn't out yet.  Technically, the feat isn't available right now.  Are your games sucking without it?  Are your characters sucking without it?  If everything is working without it, perhaps it's not as much of an auto-include as everyone makes it out to be.  Are you feeling "severly limited" right now because you're not taking it?Unless you've got a DM who loves monsters with high defenses, I think you'll be wasting a feat at level 1.  When I think of the various builds that interest me, they're all way, way too different for me to say that 80% of them will do X.  I can give you lots of examples where I definitely won't be taking expertise at level 1.  My assessment of expertise is that I can see myself taking it with most builds by level 15 or level 25.  As I've said before, something I take more than half way through a characters advancement cycle is hardly the best thing ever.Absolutely.  As I said in a previous post, D&D is about combat.  That doesn't mean the only way to play it is to min-max your characters for combat effectiveness.  Or that if you don't, you're somehow playing the game wrong.</blockquote>

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