Menu
News
All News
Dungeons & Dragons
Level Up: Advanced 5th Edition
Pathfinder
Starfinder
Warhammer
2d20 System
Year Zero Engine
Industry News
Reviews
Dragon Reflections
White Dwarf Reflections
Columns
Weekly Digests
Weekly News Digest
Freebies, Sales & Bundles
RPG Print News
RPG Crowdfunding News
Game Content
ENterplanetary DimENsions
Mythological Figures
Opinion
Worlds of Design
Peregrine's Nest
RPG Evolution
Other Columns
From the Freelancing Frontline
Monster ENcyclopedia
WotC/TSR Alumni Look Back
4 Hours w/RSD (Ryan Dancey)
The Road to 3E (Jonathan Tweet)
Greenwood's Realms (Ed Greenwood)
Drawmij's TSR (Jim Ward)
Community
Forums & Topics
Forum List
Latest Posts
Forum list
*Dungeons & Dragons
Level Up: Advanced 5th Edition
D&D Older Editions, OSR, & D&D Variants
*TTRPGs General
*Pathfinder & Starfinder
EN Publishing
*Geek Talk & Media
Search forums
Chat/Discord
Resources
Wiki
Pages
Latest activity
Media
New media
New comments
Search media
Downloads
Latest reviews
Search resources
EN Publishing
Store
EN5ider
Adventures in ZEITGEIST
Awfully Cheerful Engine
What's OLD is NEW
Judge Dredd & The Worlds Of 2000AD
War of the Burning Sky
Level Up: Advanced 5E
Events & Releases
Upcoming Events
Private Events
Featured Events
Socials!
EN Publishing
Twitter
BlueSky
Facebook
Instagram
EN World
BlueSky
YouTube
Facebook
Twitter
Twitch
Podcast
Features
Top 5 RPGs Compiled Charts 2004-Present
Adventure Game Industry Market Research Summary (RPGs) V1.0
Ryan Dancey: Acquiring TSR
Q&A With Gary Gygax
D&D Rules FAQs
TSR, WotC, & Paizo: A Comparative History
D&D Pronunciation Guide
Million Dollar TTRPG Kickstarters
Tabletop RPG Podcast Hall of Fame
Eric Noah's Unofficial D&D 3rd Edition News
D&D in the Mainstream
D&D & RPG History
About Morrus
Log in
Register
What's new
Search
Search
Search titles only
By:
Forums & Topics
Forum List
Latest Posts
Forum list
*Dungeons & Dragons
Level Up: Advanced 5th Edition
D&D Older Editions, OSR, & D&D Variants
*TTRPGs General
*Pathfinder & Starfinder
EN Publishing
*Geek Talk & Media
Search forums
Chat/Discord
Menu
Log in
Register
Install the app
Install
Upgrade your account to a Community Supporter account and remove most of the site ads.
Community
General Tabletop Discussion
*Pathfinder & Starfinder
So, about Expertise...
JavaScript is disabled. For a better experience, please enable JavaScript in your browser before proceeding.
You are using an out of date browser. It may not display this or other websites correctly.
You should upgrade or use an
alternative browser
.
Reply to thread
Message
<blockquote data-quote="keterys" data-source="post: 4739230" data-attributes="member: 43019"><p>Not really - I can't houserule LFR games. For the game I'm starting tomorrow as DM, I've houseruled appropriately.</p><p></p><p>Other than that - I enjoy hitting with the powers I already have... that's why I took them in the first place. I'm not necessarily going to even have a need for Athletics on my warlock, but I know I'll be disappointed if my diabolic grasp misses and I don't get to slide someone around, or if frigid darkness misses so the rogue can't get his sneak attack or other people miss.</p><p></p><p>Now, I certainly enjoy some feats _more_ than a minor +1 to hit... which is why I took them. </p><p></p><p>Ultimately I'm extremely disappointed that 4e contains several feats that bear a passive and direct impact on a character's combat performance (bonuses to attack, damage, etc) instead of a bunch of flavor feats. Expertise is not the only example, but it's the most offensive for the size of the bonus and its poor design in other areas (you're a dragonborn bard / scion of arkhosia who uses a sword in one hand and instrument in the other? Oh, sucks to be you...)</p><p></p><p>I'd rather I had a huge list of feats that did nifty things that had almost no bearing on overall combat prowess or allowed suboptimal tactics to come up to snuff so people could make their odder ideas work.</p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p>For example? Let's take my wife's elf druid, for instance, who already has all the skills she wants due to her initial selection, background, and possibly 1st level feat (that is, she doesn't want to improve her social skills, and has nature, perception, athletics, and acrobatics covered). She's an elf but doesn't care about any of the 'better elven precision feats' - she'll probably take Light Step someday but she could honestly just RP having it for the same effect on actual gameplay that it will have, she might consider the druid charging feat since she does at least rarely charge so a bonus to attack and damage in that circumstance could be fine... the other druid feat wasn't appropriate for her though I don't remember what it was off the top of my head (paragon has great stuff for her, though). </p><p></p><p>So, it's level 1, 2, or 4 say and she has to pick a feat. She could get a minor bonus when she charges, or she could get a minor bonus with every attack she makes, including charges. </p><p></p><p>Hard choice.</p><p></p><p>Somehow Weapon Focus and Implement Expertise made it onto her list. Maybe after Primal Power is out she'll have another 2 options, but by that time she'll also be level 16 with 9 feats and dropping Expertise's +2 would be downright silly.</p><p></p><p>I'd not be surprised if she takes Skill Focus (Perception) sometime, though, so she goes from automaking every perception check in the game to automaking them with even more silly numbers. But she might as well get a feat that actually does something for her first.</p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="keterys, post: 4739230, member: 43019"] Not really - I can't houserule LFR games. For the game I'm starting tomorrow as DM, I've houseruled appropriately. Other than that - I enjoy hitting with the powers I already have... that's why I took them in the first place. I'm not necessarily going to even have a need for Athletics on my warlock, but I know I'll be disappointed if my diabolic grasp misses and I don't get to slide someone around, or if frigid darkness misses so the rogue can't get his sneak attack or other people miss. Now, I certainly enjoy some feats _more_ than a minor +1 to hit... which is why I took them. Ultimately I'm extremely disappointed that 4e contains several feats that bear a passive and direct impact on a character's combat performance (bonuses to attack, damage, etc) instead of a bunch of flavor feats. Expertise is not the only example, but it's the most offensive for the size of the bonus and its poor design in other areas (you're a dragonborn bard / scion of arkhosia who uses a sword in one hand and instrument in the other? Oh, sucks to be you...) I'd rather I had a huge list of feats that did nifty things that had almost no bearing on overall combat prowess or allowed suboptimal tactics to come up to snuff so people could make their odder ideas work. For example? Let's take my wife's elf druid, for instance, who already has all the skills she wants due to her initial selection, background, and possibly 1st level feat (that is, she doesn't want to improve her social skills, and has nature, perception, athletics, and acrobatics covered). She's an elf but doesn't care about any of the 'better elven precision feats' - she'll probably take Light Step someday but she could honestly just RP having it for the same effect on actual gameplay that it will have, she might consider the druid charging feat since she does at least rarely charge so a bonus to attack and damage in that circumstance could be fine... the other druid feat wasn't appropriate for her though I don't remember what it was off the top of my head (paragon has great stuff for her, though). So, it's level 1, 2, or 4 say and she has to pick a feat. She could get a minor bonus when she charges, or she could get a minor bonus with every attack she makes, including charges. Hard choice. Somehow Weapon Focus and Implement Expertise made it onto her list. Maybe after Primal Power is out she'll have another 2 options, but by that time she'll also be level 16 with 9 feats and dropping Expertise's +2 would be downright silly. I'd not be surprised if she takes Skill Focus (Perception) sometime, though, so she goes from automaking every perception check in the game to automaking them with even more silly numbers. But she might as well get a feat that actually does something for her first. [/QUOTE]
Insert quotes…
Verification
Post reply
Community
General Tabletop Discussion
*Pathfinder & Starfinder
So, about Expertise...
Top