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<blockquote data-quote="Ahnehnois" data-source="post: 6268909" data-attributes="member: 17106">Well, any element of &quot;dissociation&quot; between player and character in the core rules is pretty much a non-starter for the player=character approach. And it is exclusionary even if it's only one character or one ability, because if there is a martial healer or damage on a miss, and so on and so forth, then it's clear that the basic elements those abilities are working off of (hit points, attack rolls, etc.) don't mean what we've always understood them to mean.Conversely, it's certainly possible to have a set of rules adopt a strict perspective of in-game causality and the player equaling the character, but to have the people playing the game adopt a more detached approach through changes in the social contract. It's also possible to add on dissociated elements in a fairly modular way (say, some kind of action points/plot points/etc., but also many other things that aren't character-specific or integrated into the existing rules).Now, would the base game satisfy the dissociation crowd in that case, enough for them to stay on board? That would be a challenge. If I were the one writing this thing, that would be my endeavor. At least, within reason.And yes, as [MENTION=2518]Derren[/MENTION] notes, all the previous versions of D&amp;D do this.</blockquote>

[QUOTE="Ahnehnois, post: 6268909, member: 17106"] Well, any element of "dissociation" between player and character in the core rules is pretty much a non-starter for the player=character approach. And it is exclusionary even if it's only one character or one ability, because if there is a martial healer or damage on a miss, and so on and so forth, then it's clear that the basic elements those abilities are working off of (hit points, attack rolls, etc.) don't mean what we've always understood them to mean. Conversely, it's certainly possible to have a set of rules adopt a strict perspective of in-game causality and the player equaling the character, but to have the people playing the game adopt a more detached approach through changes in the social contract. It's also possible to add on dissociated elements in a fairly modular way (say, some kind of action points/plot points/etc., but also many other things that aren't character-specific or integrated into the existing rules). Now, would the base game satisfy the dissociation crowd in that case, enough for them to stay on board? That would be a challenge. If I were the one writing this thing, that would be my endeavor. At least, within reason. And yes, as [MENTION=2518]Derren[/MENTION] notes, all the previous versions of D&D do this. [/QUOTE]

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