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Message: <blockquote data-quote="Negative Zero" data-source="post: 846671" data-attributes="member: 3794">Re: The DM's Point of Viewto add to what Steve said ... wow; Ed posted??? loli just wanna add my support to this sentiment. we've seen evidence of this, in game, many a time. and like i said before that shouldn't be the focus of this discussion ... or at least, it's not the focus i intended.i agree totally. and this is the point i was trying to make. that the answer to this question cannot be absolute and incontestable. it must take into account the situation and circumstances.yep, that's it specifically: "given the circumstances". you can't take the issue independently of the situation. if you'd never seen this person before, and some person you didn't know had simply just told you that they were evil; and you went out, found them asleep and chose to kill them, then sure, i can agree that it's an evil act. (though there would be the other issues of your own stupidity and gullibility at work, but that's another issue.)but in this case, things were different, we'd had proof of his evil nature, and we were in combat. in fact, the combat didn't end when he failed his save, as the rest of the group was still fighting some 30 feet away in the same room."goodness", especially in DnD isn't an absolute. it's divided into three forms, which are supposed to encompass the totality of morality; i.e. lawful, chaotic and neutral. even among the various facets of "good" there are differing opinions and approaches to what is acceptable as a "good" act. so to apply a carte blanche statement to any one act, is misinformed at best. at worst, well we won't go there.what may be conscionable for a neutral good character, may be wholly inappropriate for a lawful good one. and for that matter, in this instance i think a lawful good character, who is supposed to be the paragon of goodness, would have been justified in killing him, as Henry pointed out. with all due respect, i think that the reason has more to do with a game mechanic that you like from 7th Sea, than anything else. (the rest of it just happens to be a convenient excuse.) but in that game, there is no alignment mechanic, so you have to be very careful about importing it into another system. well i have only one answer to that: you suck! <img src="https://cdn.jsdelivr.net/joypixels/assets/8.0/png/unicode/64/1f61b.png" class="smilie smilie--emoji" loading="lazy" width="64" height="64" alt=":p" title="Stick out tongue    :p"  data-smilie="7"data-shortname=":p" /> <img src="https://cdn.jsdelivr.net/joypixels/assets/8.0/png/unicode/64/1f609.png" class="smilie smilie--emoji" loading="lazy" width="64" height="64" alt=";)" title="Wink    ;)"  data-smilie="2"data-shortname=";)" /> <img src="https://cdn.jsdelivr.net/joypixels/assets/8.0/png/unicode/64/1f600.png" class="smilie smilie--emoji" loading="lazy" width="64" height="64" alt=":D" title="Big grin    :D"  data-smilie="8"data-shortname=":D" /> seriously tho, there doesn't seem to me to be more reason than, "i'm the GM and i say so", for this ruling. but of course, i'm sure you will say that "there may be a good reason in game, buy you just haven't found out what it is yet."yeah? well all i have to say about that is check out this quote from <a href="http://enworld.cyberstreet.com/showthread.php?s=&threadid=779&perpage=40&pagenumber=21" target="_blank">PirateCat's game:</a>  <img src="https://cdn.jsdelivr.net/joypixels/assets/8.0/png/unicode/64/1f61b.png" class="smilie smilie--emoji" loading="lazy" width="64" height="64" alt=":p" title="Stick out tongue    :p"  data-smilie="7"data-shortname=":p" /> well i suppose that this could have been the case. heaven knows that i'm just contrary like that often, but i'm certain that there was more to it than that.yeah you damned right i'm pissed you didn't take the bracers! that's just what we need, is for him to show up later and run us through with his back-up weapon, AFTER he has one of us helplessly tied up by those magical chains from the bracers!and you're still peeved that your character is a pretend spellcaster. sheesh, i wasn't the one who told you to multiclass with bard! hopefully you'll be useful after the RPHB comes out. <img src="https://cdn.jsdelivr.net/joypixels/assets/8.0/png/unicode/64/1f61b.png" class="smilie smilie--emoji" loading="lazy" width="64" height="64" alt=":p" title="Stick out tongue    :p"  data-smilie="7"data-shortname=":p" />(as an aside to everyone else, Steve and i throw insults/jokes back and forth like this all the time, s'no big deal)very good point. this isn't the standard kill-everything-that-opposes-us kind of group. you think we'd get a lil slack and consideration for past good behaviour. personally, i'm beginning to think that our mistake was using the sleep poison. had he not lost 80% of his hitpoints in the surprise round, he more than likely would have stayed and fought rather than trying to run away like a lil girl. and then we could have just whomped him the old fashion way.now personally, this strikes me as very hypocritical. it's OK to kill helpless non-humans, but not humans? humans have the capacity to do even more evil than a demon. simply because of the fact that with humans, they have to choose voluntarily to do evil. with a demon, it's just in his nature. humans who do evil to other humans, i daresay, are worse than any demon who does what's in his nature, to what he undoubtedly considers an inferior race.we've met members of the so-called evil races, who weren't evil. one of them we even found unconscious and almost dead. are you saying that there would have been no ill consequences for killing him? where is the internal consistency then? no. it has to be adjudicated on a case-by-case basis. some members of evil races should be saved/spared, and some humans should be put down like the dogs they are and given no quarter. i knew this was coming <img src="https://cdn.jsdelivr.net/joypixels/assets/8.0/png/unicode/64/1f644.png" class="smilie smilie--emoji" loading="lazy" width="64" height="64" alt=":rolleyes:" title="Roll eyes    :rolleyes:"  data-smilie="11"data-shortname=":rolleyes:" /> <img src="https://cdn.jsdelivr.net/joypixels/assets/8.0/png/unicode/64/1f61b.png" class="smilie smilie--emoji" loading="lazy" width="64" height="64" alt=":p" title="Stick out tongue    :p"  data-smilie="7"data-shortname=":p" /> seriously tho, fine, there may be and there may as well should be, i dunno. but in this instance, they were asleep at the wheel, woke up, and overreacted to the headlights 200 feet down the freeway. bad call ref. hoooooold up! say what??? so, people need a church or other governing body to tell them what's right and what's wrong??? wow ... that's really [insert dictator name here] of you. (political reference deleted)*sigh* oh well. i've probably put way too many personal references up there, so i prolly won't add anything more to this. i really think that a one-size-fits-all answer to the question is wrong. but since the GM is determined to run with this premise, and he is the GM after all, [Gump] that's all i have to say about that. [/Gump]~NegZ</blockquote>

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