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Message: <blockquote data-quote="Drkfathr1" data-source="post: 4911432" data-attributes="member: 5617">Well, I am being generous, and trying not to enflame passions in regards to 4th Ed, but I totally understand. There are a lot of elements/conceits of 4E that I just don't like. I've tried and I've tried, and I find myself with a notebook full of notes and ideas on how to house rule this and house rule that, all trying to make it more of a game that fits my style of play. In the end, I'm just far more satisfied with 3E, and Pathfinder especially. I don't have to do pages upon pages of house rules. The guys and gals that I play with feel the same way. They get a more robust and satisfying experience from 3E, and I've seen them excited about Pathfinder as well. 4E is fine for those that like it, and I don't begrudge anyone that prefers it, that's their perogative. But like you and many others, for me it just feels hollow, watered-down, and sanitized for a more casual style player. The fluff changes are the nail in the coffin for me too. I didn't need so much of the core races/monsters/planes to be changed from what they have been for 30 years. I don't want to retcon. Not in my homebrew world, and not in any published setting that I occasionally run. Honestly there was no point in some of those changes other than to more tightly control the IP, because none of it really makes the game better, just different.</blockquote>