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Message: <blockquote data-quote="DungeonMaster" data-source="post: 3130665" data-attributes="member: 27431">Not a problem anhar, the tone of conversation is just right.  The sudden feats, and divine metamagic stack with the rods too. I understand your fix for the choker, it's more or less an RP fix. Roleplaying fixes can work, and work well, but you need the proper group. I'de be surprised that the same group of people that will cherry pick levels wouldn't read the MM and try to abuse chokers. That's true, though two fireballs in one round at 5th level is on average 35 damage save for half. It's good, but is 35 damage save for half that big of deal at 5th level? Two 3rd level NPC fighters can readily afford and throw javelins of lightning for 10d6 damage a round, or a single 6th level fighter with quickdraw. Red dragon breath is 6d10 at CR 6 and it can do it every 1d4 round. 35 area-of-effect damage, while respectable at ~5th level isn't going to break the game. If it does, then really there are a lot of other monsters, items and abilities that will do that as well and we have to throw those out too. Even if you come up against an NPC wizard armed with a wand and haste. As an aside he would likely need a scroll of haste or be an evoker/transmuter on top of that because he only gets 2 3rd level spells even with ~22 int (<24!) and haste consumes one of those. Defenders of the faith is not a good book. In fact it's pretty damn terrible, and complete divine is just as bad in my opinion (with worse editing). Different flavor of bad but will make your game sick either way without excessive pruning. I agree, and the largest fraction don't even try to do this. In my experience the whole haste+quickened spells are not used either, people don't find quicken worth the trade-off and merely use haste. Very rarely have I seen a quickened spell from a PC. I've likewise seen haste cast on warriors and rogues much more often than on wizards or clerics. This is largely as a result of the fact that wizards don't often have the right spell or enough spells to overcome the monsters while swords cut through time and time again. Metamagic rod cheese can begin quite early, as soon as craft rod comes around at 9th level. The maximize rod is the best of course and you can do all sorts of cheesy things like empowered maximized fireballs at 9th level. You memorize the spell empowered, it takes up a 5th level slot but the spell's level doesn't change per the metamagic rules so the lesser metamagic rod still works fine on it. Cheese is more expensive in 3.5, but it's also better and more versatile. The metamagic rods first appeared in the 3rd edition splat books at 10 times the price. It's unreal they made it into the core 3.5 rules, at 10 times lower price too boot. I couldn't beleive it when I saw it. Hit the quote button and that will show you the proper structure. It's basically [*quote] text you want [*/quote]  minus the *s. I could talk a lot about the 3rd edition ranger but I won't, just one paragraph. I've never had a player upset with playing one, and everyone thinks they're a good class. The main reason is there are 2 classes in the game, ranger and rogue, that get spot, listen, search, hide and move silently and these are the most used skills in the entire game. Spot primarily, especially if you actually USE the rules for starting encounters which many people here ignore wholesale. (Incidentally to these people: how do you determine who's surprised and who's not without these checks??! Hand waiving?)The ranger is a skilled warrior, the rogue a skill monkey so to speak. You can't stand at the front as a rogue in 3rd edition, if you can your DM is doing something wrong. They really do have their niche, the most survivable party I've ever had is my current one - ranger, paladin, cleric, wizard (9th level not a single death). Without a d10 hit-die I guarantee the ranger would have died 4 times in this campaign, this is not a fabrication. It is really very important, from practice, to have a d10 hit die at the front lines in the low-mid levels when you don't wear heavy armor and don't have massive stat boosting items. Druids outclass rangers in every way shape and form in 3.5. The have spot and listen in 3.5 as class skills. They even made the bonuses to hide from armor special abilities higher than any bonus you can get in 3rd edition. Wildshape in 3.5 give creature type and racial bonuses as a result so crazy high skills can be found. A few cross class skill ranks, wildshape and you're set. Non-core can get silly fast. I personally coined the term "priests of the coast" after reading the 3.5 core rules, someone else CodZilla some time later when it finally sunk in I wasn't merely some lunatic.   Bard song is a free action in 3rd edition, he can fight when he sings, be it intended or not. If you really want me to analyze the spell list I can, but the reply is getting long. The wish loophole is that it's worded such that adding things and/or creating magic items does not have GP cap.  So never give out a ring of wishes, because they can just wish for more rings or make other rings into rings of wishes and so forth. Infinite wishes.</blockquote>

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