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Message: <blockquote data-quote="anhar" data-source="post: 3132188" data-attributes="member: 36596">Oh god I just looked at 3.5 wish and you're completely correct, DungeonMaster.  Thank god I found that before my PC's did. It does say that you lose 2x the experience cost for making a magical item if you wish for it, but I don't think that applies if you use a ring/scroll/spell like ability, so lots and lots of room for cheese there.So did I, when I DM'ed 3.0.  but I'm a clever/experienced DM, and I'm assuming you are too (given your name).The problem is that Haste and Harm/Heal are extremely easy to find/abuse.  Of course a DM has to look out for powergamers cheesing up his game (especially with non-core stuff). Sometimes you beat them with cleverness, sometimes you just cheese them right back (Had a  hasted (potion) 15th level druid in a control-weather created thunderstorm drop two empowered/maximized DC 25 call lightnings on the party in the first round of combat.  They had to fight that guy on three seperate occasions to beat him. Throughout those fights he killed 5 PC's (in a 4 PC party. He killed everybody at least once)) Normal players (non-powergamers) will find and use Haste and Harm/Heal.  And inexperienced 3.0 DM's will have whole campaigns mauled by those unbalanced spells.  That's the problem with them, they're ludicrously unbalanced, and they're well known spells at reasonably accessible levels. In case you really don't think haste is unbalanced think of this: Who, knowing what haste does, would make a wizard who loses the transmutation domain in 3.0?  He'd be half a wizard. Less, since he's losing Teleport too!  At best he'd be entirely dependent on potions.You are correct on quickened spells. the earliest I've ever seen someone take the feat is 12th level, and most caster PC's have just ignored it entirely. (Until epic levels and automatic quicken spell OH GOD MY EARS ARE BLEEDING)I imagine you have to be exaggerating when you say they were 10x the cost, as that would put a lesser rod of maximizing at 140k, and a medium one well into the epic levels of cost. (590k)  It would be interesting to know exactly how much the prices were dropped.I think the idea that the lesser metamagic rod could effect a spell brought to 5th level by metamagic is somewhat shady.  I think a better rules-lawyer than myself would have to look at it to be sure, regardless of RAW though I wouldn't allow it, though honestly I don't think I'd allow metamagic rods in general.I see what you're saying in terms of the Ranger's hit dice, but my experience is much like the two above posters, without a normalizing effect on hit dice, d10 is really very much like d8.  I find Constitution to be much more important than 1 step of HD.  As for your players being happy with the 3.0 ranger, that's great. I'm honestly glad your players are happy.  I'm just saying that mine would not be.  And given the 20+ people I've gamed with and the general feel from the internet (here and wotc (potc?) boards) I would have to say that you and your group are in the minority on this issue.  Most people seem like they would like a class progression rather than a one step bonus in HD. But I think we may have to agree to disagree on this topic.As for druids outclassing them, I honestly didn't know that druids got spot and listen now. I've never seen one played in 3.0 or 3.5.  Dm'ed a few, but never seen a player use one.  I'm going to skillfully ignore the wildshape issue you brought up for fear of bringing in people who feel very strongly (flamewar) one way or the other.  I don't know if that fear is well grounded, but I know I've seen alot of angry internet over that and polymorph.I know what you're saying about bard song in 3.0.  I played a bard for a short while in a 3.0 campaign, and I argued with my DM (and won) that it was a free action.  That's because I am a jackass.  Internally, I thought at the time, and still do, that I was incorrect.  This is simply because it only says "while singing, the bard can fight, but cannot cast spells"  It never states that starting the supernatural, mind affecting ability is a free action.  thus, unless there is errata, it would be a standard action to start, then you can continue it while fighting, etc.  Not that having it be a free action would be broken, holy crap the 3.0 bard needs SOMETHING. Add to that that once again, you get more access to bardic music with ranks in perform, not bard level, and this is easily abusable. As it stands now, my 3.5 bard/8 is very happy to run around in a chain shirt with no spell failure chance, while singing his (standard action to start) inspire courage at twice the effectiveness of the 3.0 bard.From what I see of the 1st level bard spell list here, without going into much detail, they dropped the following spells from the 3.0 listMage ArmorMagic WeaponProtection from AlignmentThey added a bunch of new spells to the 3.5 list. {many of which, yes, are worthless. yay obscure item)  I haven't looked at the other levels yet.  Since they can wear armor now, they don't need mage armor.  As for the other two, I guess they weren't bard-y enough?  I guess magic weapon can be nice, but I never saw a bard actually take the spell. Prot/Align should be on the list I think.  But it doesn't look like a real serious "nerfing" yet. maybe more investigation will yield more.I guess the main thing for me is that I feel that almost everything they did with the core classes in 3.5 is a massive, massive improvement.  Add that to fixing harm/heal/haste/stat-blocks and making swarms (favorite monster for this DM) and it just seriously outweighs the harm caused by metamagic rods (which are up to the DM to give out, unless a PC takes craft rod, which I've never seen anyone do) and the weapon sizing.  especially since the weapon sizing includes a variant rule for doing it the other way.As I said, I don't have the 3.0 DMG anymore, so I would like to know how traps are handled in there.  I don't get if the issue with traps is that they broke traps in 3.5, or they just failed to fix traps in 3.5.  The more I read the trap section the angrier I get, too.  I may start up a new thread just to get a discussion/thread going on traps.  Maybe someone has insight into what the idea is behind the CR/cost.Oh and I didn't know my PC's were weird powergamers for ignoring polymorph/alter self/wildshape/shapechange until I read some threads on these boards about 2 years ago.  I have successfully never ever mentioned any form of shapechanging in front of them since then for fear of clueing them in.oh and btw, mod type peoples, do I need to control the length of my posts? cause I seem to post way longer than anyone else.</blockquote>

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