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Message: <blockquote data-quote="MortalPlague" data-source="post: 6043098" data-attributes="member: 62721">I've run and played in dozens of campaigns, and only a handful have gone about level 10.In 3.5, I once ran a short campaign starting at level 12, which went till about level 14 or 15.  It worked surprisingly well, and is one of the games I'm most proud of.  The problems of high level play never really crept into that game.In 3.5, my friend ran an Epic game.  We started at level 30, and ran till we TPK'ed at 34, fighting a half-dragon illithid black guard riding an advanced half-dragon beholder, who had an advanced ninja dragon tiger living in its mouth.  It came down to my evil mummy cleric / wizard, who decided to plane shift away rather than stay and try and kill the beholder.  Anti-magic cone and all that.  As a game, it was fun.  Definitely an exercise in high level challenges, and I know my friend had trouble coming up with things to challenge us (just look at what he threw against us).  Still, he's sworn he'll never DM epic 3.5 ever again.In 4th, I decided to start a campaign at level 9, with the adventurers already well-known members of a local adventuring group.  The campaign was a series of adventures, with a semi-rotating cast of characters (and players, for that matter).  We wrapped things up at level 17.  This was one of my best campaigns, including a couple of dragon encounters, a trek through the Underdark, and a battle of intrigue with a succubus impersonating a nobleman.  Things were getting a little math-heavy towards the end, but nothing that broke the game.A different friend decided she'd try her hand at 4th.  It was her second time DM'ing, and she started us at level 8.  Things went very well until we hit paragon tier (level 11), where the PC's power level began to cause problems.  The game wrapped at level 13, but the latter half of the game became a slog, where the DM had to throw tougher and tougher encounters to challenge us.  Partly DM inexperience, but also the system has a huge power bump when paragon kicks in.Also in 4th, we picked up a game following the events of my earlier game.  Starting at 19th level, I ran a short campaign dealing with the Tiger Cult, a thieves' guild led by a weretiger with a personal vendetta against several PCs.  The game ran up till 20th level, and it definitely felt the weight of numbers.  We had so many conditions flying around, it was crazy.Following that, I had a brief attempt at 4th edition Epic.  I cannot recommend it.  We got about six sessions in before things fell apart.  The sheer number of fiddly modifiers, conditions, saving throws, end of next turn effects, and the like just bog things down to the point where combat rounds take forever to resolve.  Also, the proliferation of shut down powers on the part of some PCs makes it a frustrating thing to DM.That about sums up my experience above 10th level (aside from some one-shot games).  I don't mind the scope and scale of the game; I find that quite interesting.  But the numbers and math and 'fiddly bits' just keep increasing.  With that in mind, I'm really excited when I hear Mearls talk about how they plan to keep things accessible, system-wise at high levels.</blockquote>

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